CourtReserve Webinars

(0:00) Hello everyone. It’s Ashley with Court
(0:02) Reserve. We are so excited to have you
(0:05) on our call today. Uh we’re going to get
(0:08) started in just a minute, but just a
(0:10) couple of announcements. Uh of course,
(0:13) you know, we’re always trying to to be
(0:16) in areas where we think it’s uh relevant
(0:19) for our clubs and things. And so, we’re
(0:21) going to be heading out on the city
(0:23) series tour with the Rackadex uh club
(0:26) series. Uh we’re going to Philadelphia
(0:28) next weekend. super excited. Uh if you
(0:30) actually get on our Instagram or
(0:32) Facebook page, we’re we’re going to be
(0:33) giving away some free tickets to this,
(0:36) but you got to be on Instagram and
(0:37) Facebook. So, join that and you’ll see
(0:40) uh how you can do that as well. And then
(0:42) if it’s not too late, we’re doing
(0:44) mastermind. It actually starts tomorrow.
(0:47) Might be a little late this time, but if
(0:48) you’re a pickle ball facility in any
(0:50) manner, we highly recommend you
(0:52) eventually go to mastermind. You’re
(0:54) going to you’re going to spend money
(0:55) somehow. Might as well not waste it. Go
(0:57) to mastermind. We highly recommend it.
(0:58) Our team’s out there in Utah this week
(1:01) uh with our pickle ball folks. And then
(1:04) if you are here and you’re a court
(1:06) reserve user, you got to come to a
(1:07) catalyst. We have put so much just this
(1:11) year into court reserve and just wait
(1:13) till you find out what we’re going to
(1:15) release on July 9th. Um I’m not putting
(1:17) I’m not giving any uh clues, but
(1:20) definitely get your tickets. We’re going
(1:21) to Seattle, Washington September 15th
(1:24) and Skiilman, New Jersey, right outside
(1:26) of Cherry Hill September the 30th. So,
(1:28) we are super excited about that as well.
(1:31) So, today, regardless if you use Safe
(1:34) Save payments or not, there’s a couple
(1:37) others. There’s Stripe, there’s some
(1:38) other folks. You are going to learn so
(1:40) much today about chargebacks. These are
(1:43) experts at Safe Save. Rachel and Shane,
(1:46) welcome uh to the court reserve webinar
(1:48) series. We are so happy to have you guys
(1:50) here today. Thanks for having us.
(1:53) Absolutely. So, um, if you’re a business
(1:56) owner, uh, you know, Tim and I, we
(1:57) opened up Old Coast, uh, pickle ball
(1:59) last April, and even Court Reserve
(2:02) itself, we occasionally have had people
(2:05) come in and say, “Oh, no. I I don’t want
(2:07) to pay for this. I’m I’m charging back.”
(2:09) So, Rachel, first of all, tell us what a
(2:12) chargeback is. So, a chargeback is
(2:15) basically when a customer goes directly
(2:17) to their bank to dispute a charge uh
(2:20) rather than speaking to the merchant.
(2:23) Nowadays, that’s often just a button in
(2:26) their banking app. So, it makes it easy,
(2:28) sometimes a little too easy, to skip you
(2:31) entirely and get a refund. Yep. So, they
(2:33) don’t even go back to the business. They
(2:35) don’t even call us at Old Coast Pickle
(2:36) Ball and say, “Hey, I want to talk to
(2:38) you about this charge.” They just go
(2:39) right back to the cart or right back to
(2:40) the bank. Yep. It’s It’s a dirty
(2:43) practice. Yes. All right. And so I know
(2:46) you have a slideshow uh ready to go for
(2:48) us. I’m super excited. So why don’t you
(2:51) just go ahead, you and Shane, just take
(2:52) it over and and you guys, I know you’re
(2:54) going to have questions. Put them in the
(2:57) um let’s see, do we want to put them in
(2:58) the chat or the Q&A? I actually like the
(3:00) Q&A better. Uh so if you’ll put your
(3:03) questions today in the Q&A, uh we’ll go
(3:05) through those as we go ahead. So Rachel
(3:07) and Shane, take it away. Thanks. Just
(3:11) pulling up my notes. So, welcome to
(3:13) today’s session on chargebacks. Um, I’m
(3:16) I know they’re a hot topic right now out
(3:18) there in the payment processing world.
(3:21) Um, the objectives of today’s session is
(3:24) to have you all understand chargebacks
(3:27) at a higher level. Um, prevent them
(3:29) before they start whenever possible.
(3:31) Sometimes that’s unavoidable, but every
(3:34) time we can, we will. um respond
(3:37) effectively when you do receive a charge
(3:38) back and reduce your overall fraud risk.
(3:41) Um so in 2023, the average card holder
(3:44) filed almost six chargebacks each um at
(3:47) around $76 a chargeback. Um so that was
(3:51) $65.2 billion in chargeback disputes in
(3:55) 2023 and that number has gone up
(3:57) significantly since then. Um and it is
(4:00) expected to continue to rise
(4:01) unfortunately.
(4:03) Um, let me hit the next.
(4:08) Um,
(4:10) so what is a chargeback? We went over
(4:12) this briefly, but a little more detail.
(4:14) Um, a chargeback is a forced reversal of
(4:16) funds, a forced refund directly from the
(4:19) bank. it skips the merchant, skips the
(4:21) payment processor entirely and starts a
(4:24) process at the banking level to
(4:29) ultimately often recoup those funds for
(4:31) the customer. Um, it was created as part
(4:35) of a federal act to protect consumers um
(4:38) from fraud, billing errors, etc. Um, and
(4:41) it has expanded into a much larger issue
(4:45) for merchants, consumers, everyone
(4:47) involved. Um it is different because
(4:50) merchants have no control over the
(4:52) initiation or outcome of this refund. Um
(4:55) and it does cost you money and time even
(4:57) when you do win. Um chargeback volume is
(5:01) expected to grow almost 25% over the
(5:04) next three years. Um reaching almost 330
(5:08) million chargebacks annually.
(5:13) [Music]
(5:15) Uh so who’s involved? There’s many
(5:18) parties. Um, so ultimately the card
(5:21) holder, whether that’s the customer or
(5:24) if your customer used someone else’s
(5:26) card, the true card holder, um, the
(5:29) issuing bank, uh, the card network. So,
(5:32) Visa, Mastercard, Discover, American
(5:34) Express, they control the rules for
(5:37) compelling evidence, for timelines, for
(5:40) the processing of disputes.
(5:42) um they are really the backbone of the
(5:45) entire process. Um your payment
(5:48) processor. So in our case that’s safe.
(5:51) We act as the middleman for the process
(5:54) rather than controlling anything. We
(5:56) really h advocate for our clients in the
(5:58) process. Help submit documentation and
(6:01) notify you when a chargeback is filed.
(6:05) Um and then of course there’s you as the
(6:07) merchant. And I do have a timeline. Cute
(6:10) little photo here. Um, so you can see
(6:13) just how complex this process can be.
(6:16) Um, so it starts with the card holder
(6:18) and it goes through all three separate
(6:20) parties to reach you as the merchant.
(6:22) After you receive the chargeback, if you
(6:24) do choose to dispute, you communicate
(6:26) that to your merchant services provider.
(6:29) We communicate it usually through a
(6:31) portal to the card network. card network
(6:34) communicates with the issuing bank and
(6:36) then the dispute process and the review
(6:38) of evidence occurs to come to a
(6:40) resolution.
(6:44) So here’s that same timeline written out
(6:46) for all of you verbal folks. Um so
(6:52) with SAFE save you have seven days to
(6:54) respond. Dispute timelines vary based on
(6:57) payment processor. Um it’s typically
(7:00) between 5 and 20 days, but the
(7:03) resolution is required by law to um
(7:06) occur within 90 days. We almost never
(7:10) see it go beyond 90 days and often
(7:12) closer to the 30-day mark. If you win,
(7:15) your funds are returned. Um if you lose,
(7:18) the transaction stands and the customer
(7:20) is refunded. Um but no action, ignoring
(7:24) the notice is an automatic loss of those
(7:26) funds for you guys.
(7:29) Um and some common chargeback reasons.
(7:34) Um some things you’ll hear from
(7:36) customers and we hear through the
(7:38) process is customers go to their banks
(7:40) and say they didn’t authorize the charge
(7:42) that they were cancelled. They cancelled
(7:44) and were still build. Oftent times this
(7:46) is uh after they have gone beyond your
(7:52) cancellation policy. So they want a
(7:54) refund and have not been provided this
(7:56) refund. um they never received the
(7:58) service. So in for tennis clubs, pickle
(8:01) ball clubs, that’s often for rain dates
(8:03) and things where an account is being
(8:05) credited. Um they don’t recognize the
(8:07) charge or system errors, unclear
(8:10) policies, things that um are typically
(8:13) resolved with communication. So I have a
(8:16) question, Rachel. So are for you guys at
(8:20) Safe Save, this is kind of, you know,
(8:22) going through that, but are most payment
(8:25) processors doing the same kind of thing
(8:27) or or are these things that you guys do
(8:30) specially because like you’re fantastic
(8:32) people like tell us a little bit about
(8:33) that. Is this a normal process for all
(8:36) payment providers?
(8:38) So it is to an extent. So the difference
(8:41) with Safe Saves is that we are a much
(8:43) smaller team. So, when you email or are
(8:45) getting a chargeback notice, you’re
(8:47) getting it from me um or my teammate. Uh
(8:52) so, when you reply with a dispute or a
(8:53) question, rather than a robot or going
(8:56) through an automated system, there’s a
(8:58) real person on the other end going
(9:00) through your documents with you, looking
(9:01) at the dispute information, and trying
(9:03) to help you navigate that system. Um
(9:06) many other payment processors are a
(9:09) larger group of people. Um, so you don’t
(9:11) necessarily get the same amount of help
(9:13) or personal attention. Um, but the
(9:16) general flow of things from card holder
(9:19) to bank to merchant services provider is
(9:23) the same. Just awesome. Just to piggy
(9:25) back um on Rachel’s point there. So the
(9:27) universal chargeback process as a whole
(9:29) is the same. The steps it goes through,
(9:31) the bank, the card brands, etc. Well,
(9:34) we’re different and like Rachel said,
(9:35) we’re a smaller team. So we’re sending
(9:36) you an email notice almost right away.
(9:38) Other processors we’ve worked with send
(9:40) out a letter via snail mail, which could
(9:42) take a week or two to get to you. So now
(9:44) your timeline to respond is even
(9:45) shorter. You’re probably dealing with an
(9:47) automated system robot as Rachel
(9:49) mentioned. Um, so that’s just one way
(9:51) we’re different, but the steps it goes
(9:54) through behind the scenes through Visa,
(9:56) Mastercard, all of that is the same. Uh,
(9:58) but our methods for notification are are
(10:01) a lot quicker. That’s awesome. Thank you
(10:03) guys. Yeah, thank you. Um,
(10:07) so every time you receive a chargeback,
(10:10) the first question, and honestly, the
(10:13) main question you should be asking is,
(10:15) should you respond to the chargeback?
(10:18) Um,
(10:19) to do that, you should really do a
(10:21) costbenefit analysis and review the
(10:23) documentation you do have. So, can you
(10:26) prove the service was provided? Do you
(10:28) have any signed agreements, any check-in
(10:30) logs? Um, did you disclose a
(10:33) cancellation refund policy? Was that
(10:35) clearly handled? Sometimes accepting a
(10:38) chargeback is better. Um, but that’s on
(10:41) a case- by case basis. Say that a $5
(10:44) chargeback is going to cost you three
(10:45) hours of work.
(10:48) Your time is money. Um, you’re busy busy
(10:51) business owners. Your staff is busy. Um,
(10:54) is that $5 worth that three hours? And
(10:56) it’ll vary from business to business.
(10:59) Um, and you can always email uh uh if
(11:03) you use Safe Save, you can reach out to
(11:04) us and we can assist in figuring out
(11:07) what documentation is best or um there’s
(11:10) a lot of resources online as well as now
(11:12) in the court reserve uh knowledge base
(11:14) that can help with that as well.
(11:17) Um so if you do choose to respond,
(11:20) building a strong response is the main
(11:24) battle. Um so you want to be clear,
(11:26) common, factual. I try to explain it
(11:29) like you’re uh explaining the entire
(11:32) situation to a stranger. You want it to
(11:34) be clear, organized, complete. Um,
(11:37) jokingly I say it’s like you’re going on
(11:39) judge duty. You really have to make it
(11:41) easy to understand for the person on the
(11:44) other side who’s going to be reviewing
(11:46) all your documents. You have to connect
(11:48) all the dots with your evidence and your
(11:49) statement and directly dispute the
(11:51) chargeback reason that you’re given,
(11:53) which we can go into in the next slide.
(11:56) Um, so you can include booking policies,
(12:00) no-show conver confirmation, screenshots
(12:03) from court reserve are excellent. Um,
(12:06) signed policy agreements, attendance
(12:08) records, all of the above directly from
(12:11) Safe Save or your payment processor,
(12:13) including AVS, CVV, um, so that’s
(12:16) address verification. CVV is your
(12:19) security code on your card, like the pin
(12:20) on the back. Um, an IP address as
(12:23) evidence. Um, typically it’ll say if
(12:25) there was a match, a no match. You can
(12:27) look and see if the IP matches the
(12:29) billing location and that is strong
(12:31) supporting evidence as well, especially
(12:33) in fraud cases. Um, oh, and you
(12:36) definitely want to submit on time.
(12:37) Missing the deadline means that the card
(12:39) holder will win that case.
(12:43) Um, so some myths and misunderstandings.
(12:46) Uh, so this is like a true or false game
(12:49) going on. All chargebacks are fraud. Um
(12:53) it definitely feels that way but this is
(12:56) false. Um the chargeback system was set
(13:00) up to protect consumers and it does do
(13:03) its job in that way despite the new
(13:06) issue with friendly fraud. Uh safe and
(13:09) your payment processor can cancel a
(13:11) chargeback. Um we wish
(13:15) uh we cannot false. It is managed
(13:17) entirely by the card network um and the
(13:20) issuing bank. So, we have no ability to
(13:23) cancel or prevent a uh chargeback from
(13:26) being filed. I often wish I could for
(13:29) our clients, though. I will say um
(13:31) merchants can’t win disputes. Um the it
(13:36) feels this way for a lot of our clients
(13:38) that I speak to, especially after a big
(13:40) loss. But win rates can exceed 70% if
(13:43) you follow the rules and submit proper
(13:46) evidence. Um, evidence is the name of
(13:49) the game.
(13:51) Most chargebacks do stem from poor
(13:53) communication and criminal intent, not
(13:56) criminal intent. Um, I get a lot of
(13:58) emails saying exactly the opposite, but
(14:02) uh, it is true. Uh, chargebacks are
(14:05) often pure miscommunication, a lack of
(14:07) understanding from card holders.
(14:12) So, true fraud versus friendly fraud.
(14:15) This is huge right now in the chargeback
(14:18) world. Um, true fraud is everything we
(14:22) all think of when we think of fraud. So,
(14:24) stolen cards, identity theft, some bad
(14:26) actor on the other side trying to get a
(14:29) service for free or testing to see if a
(14:32) card works so they can use it elsewhere.
(14:34) Friendly fraud is what’s very become
(14:37) very common with chargebacks. Um, it’s
(14:39) also known as firstparty fraud, first
(14:42) party misuse. Um, but it’s typically a
(14:46) fraud claim or a chargeback that’s filed
(14:49) specifically uh to recoup funds. Maybe
(14:52) on accident because uh they forgot they
(14:55) purchased it or there’s a
(14:57) miscommunication of the family, but
(14:59) occasionally also because they’re
(15:00) confused or they regret the purchase and
(15:03) want their money back without
(15:04) communication often um or user error.
(15:08) Um, I know I have done this myself as a
(15:11) consumer where I see a charge on my
(15:13) debit card or my credit card and I go, I
(15:16) don’t know who that is. And I
(15:17) immediately go to press the button like
(15:19) to mark it as fraud or dispute it and
(15:22) then I go back later like, I’m so sorry,
(15:25) I figured out what it was. Um, even when
(15:28) a consumer goes back to reverse a
(15:31) chargeback, it’s still going through to
(15:33) the merchant. They’re still incurring
(15:34) fees. They’re losing time. Um, and most
(15:37) customers are not aware of this.
(15:41) Um, so the best chargeback is the one
(15:44) you’d ever get. Um, it’s much cheaper to
(15:46) prevent chargebacks than to fight them.
(15:48) Um,
(15:50) chargebacks cost around 375 for each
(15:53) dollar lost directly. Um, and this
(15:55) because of time lost, processing fees,
(15:57) damage to accounts or reputation.
(16:01) Um, so we’ll go over some best
(16:03) practices. Um, these are good overall
(16:06) business practices and they build trust
(16:08) in your clients, but they also build a
(16:11) documentation trail and make it more
(16:14) clear to your customers um, how to
(16:16) cancel, how to request refunds um, and
(16:19) prevent confusion and friendly fraud
(16:21) situations. Um, so clear visible clear
(16:26) visible policies are your first line of
(16:28) defense. You want to use every customer
(16:30) touch point to communicate them. Um, you
(16:33) can also submit this all as evidence um
(16:35) of agreement in disputes and it
(16:38) increases your chance of winning. Um, so
(16:40) you want to display cancellation or
(16:42) refund policies at checkout. Uh, court
(16:44) reserve does have the ability to require
(16:46) digital agreement terms at checkout.
(16:48) I’ve seen I’m sure Ashley can speak more
(16:50) about that if anyone uh needs
(16:53) information on that. Um, and you do want
(16:55) to avoid ambiguous language. So rather
(16:58) than maybe refunded, you say refunds
(17:00) provided within this amount of time for
(17:03) if you so like can a refunds provided
(17:06) for cancellations within 24 hours,
(17:08) something like that. Um you got have to
(17:11) be very very clear. Um and I do have
(17:14) examples of that that are in the court
(17:16) reserve knowledge base or going into the
(17:18) court reserve knowledge base. Um you
(17:20) want to send confirmation emails with
(17:22) full booking details whenever you can.
(17:24) Um, and include information on how
(17:27) cancellations and refunds work in all
(17:30) communications. Uh, proactively remind
(17:32) your customers of their upcoming
(17:34) sessions. Document every cancellation
(17:36) and complaint in writing. When you
(17:38) document things in writing, you can
(17:40) submit that in the case that a dispute
(17:43) is filed, that a chargeback is filed.
(17:45) Respond quickly, keep detailed records,
(17:48) train your staff, contact members early.
(17:51) Um, yeah, I think that that covers many
(17:54) things and of course this will go on for
(17:57) ever with documentation options. Well,
(17:59) and I’d love to speak to that because in
(18:01) aside court reserve, there are a couple
(18:03) different places. Definitely, people can
(18:05) go in right now and on payment receipts,
(18:08) they can add additional notes, you know,
(18:10) that go along with. So, if you’re
(18:12) running a point of sale and you’re
(18:13) selling drinks or merchandise out of
(18:15) your point of sale shop, you could
(18:16) definitely have a refund policy on
(18:18) there. Um, you know, we also have the
(18:21) waiverss and liabilities within court
(18:22) reserve. So, you could always put your
(18:24) refund policies in the documentation
(18:27) when the member first joined your
(18:29) organization. Now, does anybody read
(18:31) that? No. But you can prove that they
(18:35) signed it when they joined your facility
(18:37) as well. Um, you can put refund policies
(18:40) on your member portal. U, there’s lots
(18:42) of different ways. And so what Rachel is
(18:45) describing is different ways that you
(18:48) can, you know, add these refund
(18:50) policies, what your procedures are. Of
(18:51) course, you can print them out, put them
(18:53) at your front desk, uh, put them on the
(18:55) app. Uh, but as well, I think it’s just
(18:58) good for you to even think about this
(19:01) because I was telling Rachel and Shane
(19:03) before this, you know, at Old Coast
(19:04) Pickle Ball, I don’t even know if we
(19:05) have this written anywhere. So, we want
(19:07) to make sure that we are presenting, you
(19:10) know, this is exactly how it is. this is
(19:12) our refund policy and etc. So I know
(19:15) that Rachel you’ve created four uh
(19:18) documents for us at court reserve
(19:20) specifically for safe clients and we are
(19:23) working on putting those documents into
(19:26) the court reserve knowledge base under
(19:27) those safe articles. Um so if you’re
(19:30) interested um in reading what those are,
(19:33) I know Rachel’s going to go over them,
(19:34) but just reach out to support later on
(19:36) and then we can show you where that
(19:38) lives. So cool. Thank you. Yeah, it’s uh
(19:42) good policies overall and great evidence
(19:46) to submit as well, although I hope you
(19:48) can avoid needing to submit.
(19:52) Um so using court reserve and safe save
(19:54) safe to prevent and respond. Um so court
(19:56) reserve has a lot of great features for
(19:59) managing your customers. Um tracking
(20:01) attendance and cancellations is huge. Um
(20:04) submitting that as evidence in dispute
(20:07) is also incredibly helpful. um card
(20:10) networks do take attendance seriously
(20:13) and proving that they attended either
(20:15) through the court reserve features of
(20:18) tracking or images. I’ve had people
(20:20) submit images from their security
(20:23) cameras even um it also logs check-ins
(20:26) messages. You can create custom forms
(20:28) and Ashley talked about um modifying
(20:31) where policies are placed on the website
(20:34) in the app um etc. uh safe we for
(20:39) prevention we do have real time fraud
(20:42) prevention solutions. Um so we have
(20:44) fraud prevention available in each
(20:45) gateway that can be managed by the
(20:49) merchant directly. Um you can also reach
(20:51) out to our customer service team if you
(20:53) want any help going through that and
(20:55) figuring out what works best for you.
(20:58) Oftent time this means uh modifying CVB
(21:01) or ABS settings. Um and we have some
(21:04) other options as well. Um overall court
(21:08) reserve is incredibly secure. So card
(21:11) testing and other forms of fraud are a
(21:13) non-issue. However, uh preventing things
(21:17) like incorrect card use or using of
(21:20) someone using someone else’s card can be
(21:22) helpful with some of our settings in the
(21:25) gateway. Uh we’re also P PCI compliant
(21:28) so you don’t have to worry about data
(21:30) breaches um anything like that. you will
(21:34) get all of your dispute alerts via email
(21:36) and it has instructions on how to reach
(21:38) us for questions and submitting those
(21:40) disputes um and the support and guidance
(21:43) we offer. Um
(21:48) oh and uh this is just a fun fact. It is
(21:51) a marketing bonus to
(21:55) use the chargeback prevention tools and
(21:57) policies to build trust with your
(22:00) customers. Um, so by communicating
(22:03) clearly, having all of your policies
(22:05) posted, making it easy to understand how
(22:08) things are built and why they’re build,
(22:10) not only do you reduce disputes and
(22:12) chargebacks, but you improve your reput
(22:15) reputation. Um, members know you’re
(22:18) protecting their data, you’re practicing
(22:20) fair billing practices, um, and that
(22:22) you’re transparent and proactive in
(22:24) handling any concerns that do arise. Um,
(22:27) so it’s just a overall good uh business
(22:31) practice.
(22:34) Some fun real uh real world fraud
(22:37) trends. Um, so in a Forbes report on
(22:40) chargebacks, uh, merchants reported that
(22:44) at least 44% of chargebacks were
(22:46) friendly fraud. Other numbers that are
(22:48) not based on merchant reporting have
(22:50) this number even higher. Um, which is
(22:53) unfortunate. Um, fraud is not always
(22:56) what you think it is. It’s often a
(22:58) regular customer changing their mind or
(22:59) being confused. Um, so 84% of customers
(23:04) surveyed in the chargeback.io survey
(23:08) said filing chargebacks felt easier than
(23:10) requesting a refund. Um, a good
(23:13) prevention method is to try to make it
(23:16) easier to request a refund than to file
(23:18) a chargeback, which is the ongoing
(23:20) struggle. Um 72% of customers saw no
(23:25) real difference between filing a
(23:27) chargeback and requesting a refund and
(23:30) uh almost around half skip the merchant.
(23:33) Um
(23:35) uh card testing fraud is rising but it’s
(23:39) incredibly low when utilizing uh risk of
(23:43) sorry I have Wednesday brain. Uh there’s
(23:46) a really low risk of hard testing fraud
(23:48) utilizing court preserve because of
(23:49) login features and other security. Um
(23:54) so Rachel, what is surprising to me is
(23:57) that you know most people common people
(24:01) they don’t even realize what they’re
(24:03) doing when they do a chargeback. They’re
(24:05) actually hurting the business, right? No
(24:07) idea. And and they they just don’t know.
(24:09) And I mean it it’s interesting. I’m glad
(24:11) that we’re having this conversation
(24:12) today because this allows, like you
(24:15) said, for our clubs and facilities to
(24:17) really go above and beyond and and make
(24:20) sure that their policies are in place
(24:21) and that they can tell their players,
(24:23) hey, please come to us if you have a
(24:25) concern about a charge on your account
(24:27) and and maybe not have to go through the
(24:30) burden of all this chargeback stuff.
(24:33) Yeah, it’s a a game of prevention. And I
(24:36) do think that most customers if they
(24:38) knew the burden and the fees and
(24:40) everything associated with a dispute
(24:42) when they file it would not be filing
(24:44) them to begin with. We a lot of our
(24:46) customers are like our clients know
(24:49) their customers. They email in saying I
(24:51) know this person so well. I don’t
(24:53) understand why they’re filing this. Um
(24:55) and it’s often just a communication
(24:57) issue. So making everything very clear
(25:00) makes a huge difference. So good. Um
(25:03) yeah, and it’s uh
(25:06) just one note, chargebacks are popular
(25:08) right now because of the convenience of
(25:10) mobile apps and um all of that, but the
(25:14) lack of awareness, confusing return
(25:15) policies are a huge part of the
(25:19) increase.
(25:21) Um so preventing fraud without friction.
(25:24) So you like we talked about you want it
(25:25) to be everything to be clear. You want
(25:28) it to be so easy for your customers to
(25:30) go onto your website, go into the app
(25:31) and see who they have to talk to, who
(25:33) they have to email, who they have to
(25:34) call, can they press a button to request
(25:37) a refund, any of that. Um, so that they
(25:40) don’t have to go guess or search, press
(25:43) five clicks to find your policies. Um,
(25:47) enable the address verification system
(25:49) and CVB checks if you can. Um, you can
(25:53) work with our support team and call in
(25:56) and we can help you figure out what
(25:58) settings will work best based on your
(26:00) processing history. Um, and a lot of,
(26:03) uh, other payment processors will have a
(26:06) knowledge base or support team as well
(26:08) that you can work with. Um and requiring
(26:11) login for reservations is a um huge part
(26:16) of preventing card testing fraud as
(26:18) well, which is very much not an issue
(26:22) with court reserve, which is great. So
(26:25) Rachel, let me just stop you real quick.
(26:27) I just saw a question come in, so I
(26:29) figured we just answer this one real
(26:31) quick and give you a little breather. So
(26:34) um it’s asked that safe charges a $20
(26:37) non-refundable fee for chargebacks. Why
(26:40) is this fee not returned if we prove the
(26:42) chargeback is erroneous?
(26:45) So, the fine is my absolutely favorite
(26:48) part of chargebacks, and I’m sure Shane
(26:50) can agree. Uh, this is a fine that’s
(26:53) directly
(26:54) given to us as your payment processor by
(26:57) the card network and bank. Um, they say
(27:00) it’s for chargeback handling and
(27:02) processing. Um, but it’s not a safe
(27:06) making any money off of your
(27:08) chargebacks. being charged to us and we
(27:11) pass that to you as our client. Um, we
(27:15) do work with clients as best we can, but
(27:18) it’s overall um, something that is an
(27:21) unfortunate and standard practice in the
(27:23) chargeback world because banks are
(27:25) issuing this to all payment processors.
(27:28) So, so yeah, one thing we see with
(27:30) others is they’ll charge a monthly fee
(27:32) for chargeback handling. Whether you
(27:34) have them or not, you’re getting charged
(27:35) a $20 fee, a $30 fee. Not everyone does
(27:38) this. Most do, you know, how we do it is
(27:41) per occurrence. And as Rachel mentioned,
(27:43) we’re passing along what we’re charged.
(27:45) We’re not increasing that or upcharging
(27:48) it. But even if you win, that fee still
(27:50) sticks. Um it’s not like it goes away
(27:52) and we get refunded the fee. It it still
(27:54) applies regardless. Um the beauty
(27:58) business owner.
(28:01) Yeah. It’s very fun. Uh, I’ve also seen
(28:03) I I like to look at how other businesses
(28:06) are managing chargebacks as part of my
(28:08) job. Um, and I’ve seen some companies
(28:11) your first chargeback fine is free and
(28:13) then after that it’s $50 to $100
(28:15) depending on the uh case. Like there’s a
(28:19) lot of different ways of applying it,
(28:20) but the fee is uh standard unfortunately
(28:25) um and not charged to for fun or to make
(28:28) a profit. Let’s go. I’ve got a couple
(28:30) more questions here. Um, so one is let’s
(28:33) see, we would like our confirmation
(28:35) emails to provide more information to
(28:37) avoid issues. When will court reserve be
(28:39) building the ability to customize the
(28:40) confirmation and reminder emails? So
(28:43) currently you can go in and to those
(28:45) emails and you can add additional
(28:47) information, the payment receipt. Um,
(28:50) you can put it on your event
(28:51) registration emails, your lesson, and
(28:54) there’s a lot of stuff that you can do.
(28:56) Um, we are going to be working in Q3 to
(28:59) do more customization around emails, but
(29:02) right now you can certainly add
(29:04) additional information to those emails.
(29:06) Um, and so what I would do is if you
(29:09) have questions about how to do that,
(29:11) please reach out to support. Um, we’re
(29:12) definitely um, we can help you with
(29:14) that. And then the next question, if we
(29:17) get a chargeback request, decide that it
(29:20) is not worth contesting, so we refund
(29:23) the charge to the card. Does that fix
(29:26) the problem and avoid the fee?
(29:30) Unfortunately, no. Um I wish uh so when
(29:33) a chargeback is filed, it’s acting as
(29:35) the refund already. So, in all safe
(29:38) chargeback notifications, they’ll
(29:39) there’s a line saying to not attempt a
(29:41) refund in any way because the chargeback
(29:44) is the refund. Um, so if you want the
(29:47) card holder to receive a refund, you
(29:49) would either uh accept the refund
(29:51) usually via like for safe you reply
(29:54) saying accept or do nothing. Um, but you
(29:57) absolutely do not want to provide a
(29:59) refund on top of a chargeback. Um, as it
(30:02) then you will be out extra money and
(30:04) you’ll be in the negative. Um, so yeah,
(30:07) if you have questions, definitely reach
(30:08) out to Safe Save and support and and
(30:10) make sure that you don’t double them for
(30:14) Yeah, you don’t want to give away free
(30:16) money like that. It’s already a painful
(30:18) process. So, Right. That’s exactly
(30:20) right. All right, we have some more
(30:21) questions coming in. This is great.
(30:23) Where can we find the confirmation email
(30:25) that was sent to the customer to support
(30:28) these chargebacks when disputing? So,
(30:31) I’m assuming Cindy, if you’re talking
(30:32) about court reserve, all emails, you can
(30:35) actually go into um and I tell you what,
(30:39) Cindy, what I’ll do is I’ll try and get
(30:41) support to kind of make you a screenshot
(30:43) of where you can go in and see where
(30:45) emails live that go out of court
(30:46) reserve. And then what about from you,
(30:48) Rachel? Do you guys have any emails that
(30:51) you send out with with information that
(30:53) can be helped in the dispute?
(30:55) uh we don’t send any emails directly to
(30:57) customers but in the gateway we do carry
(31:00) um all of the transaction data and I
(31:04) have found that submitting a screenshot
(31:06) of the entire transaction is incredibly
(31:10) helpful especially for uh fraud. Um you
(31:14) can also pull your transaction history.
(31:16) So, if someone’s claiming fraud and say
(31:18) they have 10 other reservations they’ve
(31:21) made and not disputed, submitting those
(31:24) other notis disputed transactions, the
(31:26) transactions with no chargebacks is
(31:29) really great evidence that no, this is
(31:31) not fraud, this is just a confused or
(31:34) angry customer. Um, something like that,
(31:37) right? Are you telling me that sometimes
(31:39) people just get upset and they just do
(31:41) chargebacks because
(31:43) um it’s rare, but it does happen. It’s
(31:46) not a fun practice. I have seen uh I
(31:50) would say once a week I get a reply that
(31:53) this customer is just mad we won’t
(31:55) refund her because she received the
(31:57) services. Um how do we prove that she
(32:00) received the services and this is not
(32:02) fraud? Um, so there can be a malicious
(32:06) aspect.
(32:08) Luckily, it’s not super common, but we
(32:10) we have all had experiences with someone
(32:13) who just wants to show you how angry
(32:15) they are. Yes. So, all right, we got
(32:18) another question. Is there a
(32:19) determination on how the CVV code will
(32:22) be used either by court reserve or safe
(32:25) to avoid people loading incorrect card
(32:27) numbers into their payment profile?
(32:31) Oh, we were uh Oh, Shane, if you want
(32:33) ahead. Uh we have been working with Port
(32:35) Reserve on this and I believe that
(32:37) feature is incoming, but Shane, I don’t
(32:40) know if you have any updates. In terms
(32:42) of storing a payment profile, you
(32:44) actually can’t store a CVV. So, it’s not
(32:48) used for that purpose. And by default,
(32:50) we’re not requiring a match on a
(32:53) transaction. Um just because of the same
(32:56) storage issue, you can’t actually store
(32:58) it. But if it is provided on a
(32:59) transaction, you’ll see the response
(33:01) like did it match or did it not match on
(33:04) our side in the transaction history. We
(33:06) have settings. You can certainly enable
(33:07) it so that it must match or a
(33:09) transaction will fail. We can set that
(33:11) by but by default it is not. But if it
(33:13) is provided, you see if it matched or
(33:15) not um under the transaction details in
(33:18) the gateway. Nice. Yeah, the CBVB for uh
(33:21) saved payment methods is uh more
(33:23) difficult because it’s uh federally
(33:26) illegal to store the security pin, the
(33:29) CVB. Um so it does make it more
(33:33) difficult um in terms of
(33:37) blocking transactions through the CVB
(33:39) method. Address verification is
(33:41) typically better, but that has pluses
(33:45) and minuses too depending on which
(33:47) settings you choose. So reaching out to
(33:48) safe is always a a good call when
(33:51) modifying those settings. Awesome. These
(33:54) are great questions. Uh but Rachel, I’m
(33:56) going to let you continue on. Yeah. Um
(33:59) so we’ve gone over this a few times. Uh
(34:01) oh, we went over pretty much all of this
(34:04) already. Let’s see. Logins. Yeah, sorry.
(34:06) I’m catching up. Um so spotting fraud
(34:09) early. So, in cases of true fraud, um,
(34:11) which are incredibly uncommon with court
(34:14) reserve, however, they do happen,
(34:17) unfortunately. Um, you have some red
(34:21) flags you can look out for. A lot of it
(34:22) is unfortunately a gut feeling based on
(34:25) people acting strangely. Um, so
(34:29) customers being rude and evasive when
(34:31) they’re adding a payment method or, uh,
(34:34) changing their card 10 times and each
(34:36) time it’s failing. I don’t know many
(34:39) people who have 10 different credit
(34:41) cards to attempt a transaction with. Um
(34:44) disputing the last minute like
(34:46) cancelling last minute often disputing
(34:50) um unfamiliar names or locations. If
(34:52) you’re based in Florida and someone
(34:55) books online um from Washington
(35:00) just like they could be traveling or it
(35:03) could be um something a little weirder.
(35:07) So, keeping an eye on your payment
(35:08) processing overall and who’s signing up
(35:11) and just being aware as best you can of
(35:14) what your transactions are is a good
(35:16) best practice. Um, and you are in
(35:19) control of who you accept as a customer.
(35:21) Um, if something’s suspicious to you,
(35:23) you can reach out to Safe Save, you can
(35:25) reach out to Court Reserve, um, and
(35:27) protect your business first and
(35:29) foremost.
(35:31) Um, and last page. Um so the final
(35:34) takeaways uh for protecting your club’s
(35:37) bottom line with chargebacks and fraud.
(35:39) Um understand the process. Chargebacks
(35:42) cost time, money, resources, reputation.
(35:46) Um know the flow of chargebacks. Know
(35:49) who’s involved in the process. Um have
(35:52) clear policies. Uh communicate
(35:56) proactively.
(35:57) Keep strong documentation.
(36:00) Respond quickly and confidently. Um,
(36:03) watch for warning signs and leverage
(36:05) your partners. Sport Reserve is
(36:07) excellent. They’re here to help you.
(36:08) We’re here to help you at Safe Save.
(36:10) Your payment processors have knowledge
(36:13) bases and support teams you can reach
(36:15) out to. Um, so don’t be afraid to reach
(36:17) out for help and use the systems to
(36:20) really tackle these issues. Yes,
(36:23) definitely. Because I can tell you, you
(36:26) know, at Court Reserve, we’ve been
(36:27) around over eight years now and
(36:28) occasionally, you know, we’ve had a
(36:31) player accidentally come in and they’ve
(36:33) subscribed to court reserve. Now, why
(36:35) they did that, I don’t know, but they
(36:37) did. And then instead of coming to court
(36:39) reserve and saying, “Hey, I don’t know
(36:40) why you charge me. It’s the chargeback.”
(36:42) So, we’ve actually worked with Rachel a
(36:44) couple times, you know, on this. And so,
(36:47) Rachel, I want to share the kind of the
(36:50) documents. Um, do you want me to share
(36:51) the screen? Um, yeah, that would be
(36:53) great. Okay. All right. So, I’m going to
(36:55) share these documents just because I
(36:57) want to kind of show you guys uh what’s
(37:00) what what the the team has come up with.
(37:02) And we’re going to actually take these
(37:04) and put these in the um safe articles
(37:08) within the court reserve knowledge base.
(37:10) Um that’s where all of our articles and
(37:12) videos and things are. So, one, they’ve
(37:14) done a chargeback prevention guide. Um,
(37:17) again, a lot of this stuff we’ve kind of
(37:18) gone over today, but just wanted to kind
(37:20) of show you guys um, you know, how to
(37:23) handle this. Um, a customer dispute call
(37:26) log template. This is great because then
(37:29) you can use this internally. Um, keep
(37:31) good records. That way when you’re
(37:33) working with Rachel, you can already
(37:34) show her um, and and the merchant, you
(37:37) know, what you guys have already done. A
(37:39) chargeback response template. So, this
(37:41) is great because you’ve already given us
(37:43) the language uh that could be used uh
(37:46) for this and then the you know just an
(37:49) overview of chargebacks, what to expect,
(37:51) timelines, how we work with Safe Save,
(37:54) all the Safe Save emails and phone
(37:56) numbers and support um and everything.
(37:59) And so, I just wanted to share that with
(38:00) you guys. If you would like copies of
(38:03) these before we get them in the
(38:06) knowledge base because literally Rachel
(38:07) sent these to me this morning and I’m
(38:08) like, “Oh, that is so gold.” Uh, reach
(38:11) out to court reserve support and say,
(38:13) “Hey, I was on the safe webinar today
(38:15) and Ashley said I could ask for those
(38:17) four documents and we will send those to
(38:19) you. They’re PDFs, so so they’re really
(38:21) good right now.” So, any final
(38:24) questions? Please go ahead and put those
(38:26) in the Q&A so we can make sure and
(38:27) answer those. Um, you know, Rachel and
(38:31) Shane, I think, you know, in this day
(38:32) and time, as much, you know, as we would
(38:35) love to think that, you know, there’s no
(38:37) fraud out there at all and that people
(38:39) aren’t going to do this, I mean, it’s
(38:40) just part of of running a business. And
(38:43) so, I just want to thank you guys today
(38:44) for taking the time out to come on, you
(38:46) know, regardless if you use Safe Save or
(38:48) not, whether you use Stripe or another
(38:50) card merchant provider, this is really
(38:52) good knowledge for all businesses to be
(38:54) aware of. So, um, and you know, at Court
(38:57) Reserve, we’re constantly working to try
(38:58) and make it easy for you. So, again, if
(39:02) you need help with knowing where that
(39:04) extra line item is on your confirmations
(39:07) or your payment receipts within court
(39:09) reserve, reach out to support. I will
(39:11) let them know that you guys are on the
(39:13) way to ask questions because we want to
(39:15) make sure that we help you set up these
(39:17) policies and procedures um in order to
(39:20) to do and and to run your business more
(39:22) efficiently. Uh, we got a question. I
(39:24) assume that when a chargeback goes
(39:26) through, there is no change in the court
(39:29) reserve payment history of that member.
(39:32) So what happens within that? Do you guys
(39:35) can you talk about that a little bit? It
(39:37) has been a little bit since I’ve had a
(39:40) screenshot come through. I know that in
(39:42) safe it uh shows as failed. So when a
(39:45) safe uh when a transaction comes through
(39:48) as a chargeback, it’ll ch it’ll show a
(39:51) chargeback line. It’ll show sale,
(39:53) settle, chargeback, and when that
(39:55) chargeback happens, it changes the
(39:57) transaction to failed. Um, so I would
(40:00) have to check with court reserve support
(40:02) on how it shows on the court reserve
(40:03) side. I unfortunately don’t have a
(40:04) system myself. Um, but we do get a lot
(40:07) of uh questions being like, oh, I
(40:09) thought this transaction failed. Um, it
(40:11) just changes to failed, so you can’t
(40:13) provide a secondary refund because that
(40:15) would not be fun. And I just made sure
(40:18) and that is correct. there’s no change
(40:20) in the court reserve payment history. Um
(40:23) we don’t actually get any notification
(40:25) in court reserve that a chargeback is
(40:27) done. Um and so that would answer that
(40:29) question right there for sure. So good
(40:31) question. Yeah. And we do have uh
(40:33) automated gateway emails that’ll go out
(40:35) and tell you when a chargeback’s filed.
(40:36) and then our chargeback dispute email
(40:39) that has all the instructions on what to
(40:41) do, who to talk to, um what your options
(40:44) are and everything like that that we
(40:46) send out as well to the primary gateway
(40:48) contact.
(40:50) Anything else you can think of? Oh,
(40:52) let’s see. He’s got one more question.
(40:54) Uh so, how do I settle the reports in
(40:56) court reserve to show a chargeback? That
(40:59) is a great question and what I would
(41:01) encourage you to do is reach out to
(41:02) customer support because I don’t know
(41:04) the answer to that. I’ll be quite
(41:05) honest. Um, so I’m trying to get the
(41:08) answer for you right now, but if you’ll
(41:10) reach out to uh support at court
(41:12) reserve, then definitely um we can help
(41:15) you know what to do with that. The next
(41:18) question is, does Court Reserve place
(41:19) the $20 chargeback fee on the customer
(41:22) account? No, we don’t know when a
(41:24) chargeback happens within court reserve.
(41:26) And so if you want to charge your
(41:29) customer for doing a charge back, then
(41:32) you’ll have to go in and and assign a
(41:34) miscellaneous fee of somehow on that
(41:37) customer or that member’s um you know
(41:39) account within court reserve. So I do
(41:42) suggest uh including in your policies if
(41:45) you will share the fee with your
(41:47) customers if they file a chargeback
(41:50) accidentally. Um, just so you can That’s
(41:53) another great idea actually. Yeah. To
(41:55) have in your policy. So if they
(41:57) accidentally hit the button they’re
(41:58) charging back, then they’re going to
(41:59) help you pay for all the processing fee
(42:01) of $20 for sure. So um, we got another
(42:04) question. Should I contact the customer
(42:06) once I’m aware of a chargeback or just
(42:08) go through the process? I always suggest
(42:12) contact contacting the customer if you
(42:14) have the time. Um, time, cost, benefit,
(42:16) analysis always. But um oftent times you
(42:20) can resolve things directly with a
(42:23) customer either through accepting a new
(42:24) payment method or they can call and uh
(42:28) cancel the chargeback with their bank um
(42:30) and then send you an email confirmation
(42:33) of that cancellation. Um, so it’s worth
(42:37) it in my opinion to reach out. Um, and
(42:39) if they don’t answer, please contact
(42:42) Safe Safe or your payment processor and
(42:45) I would say um, if you would like to
(42:47) dispute and not have that be a refund,
(42:49) we should plan out your documentations.
(42:53) I wish Tracy question Tracy. Yeah,
(42:56) Tracy, that fee is part of something
(42:58) that even Safe Safe’s not doing. It’s a
(43:00) part of the policy of the the provider
(43:02) at what Visa, Mastercard, Discover, all
(43:04) those all those fantastic people that we
(43:06) love. So that fee does not go away. So
(43:09) that’s where she’s talking about Tracy
(43:11) where you can make it as part of your
(43:12) policy that if you do have to do go
(43:14) through this chargeback dispute, then
(43:16) you can share that pain with the
(43:18) customer that’s actually trying to
(43:19) charge back. So completely up to you
(43:22) guys. Unfortunately, that fee happens at
(43:25) the time the chargeback is initiated. So
(43:27) if a customer clicks that button in
(43:28) their bank that says dispute and then go
(43:30) two minutes later go oo accident and
(43:33) call their bank and say never mind it
(43:35) already got initiated that $20 already
(43:37) hit. So it’s it’s immediate. Really?
(43:40) Yeah. That’s why that fee like even if
(43:41) they win the chargeback or the
(43:42) chargeback’s canceled, it was already
(43:44) initiated. That’s when the fee applies.
(43:45) That’s why it still applies even if the
(43:47) customer cancels it. Uh the card holder
(43:50) cancels it. Sorry. Um because it’s at
(43:52) the time of initiation. Oh, lovely.
(43:54) Yeah. Yeah. It’s a very fun fun process.
(43:58) That’s why we got we gotta So, here’s a
(44:00) great question. How do you come up with
(44:03) a great policy for refunds and
(44:06) chargebacks, right? I mean, I’m thinking
(44:07) off the top of my head, I mean,
(44:09) everybody’s all AI crazy right now. Chat
(44:11) GBT might have some great
(44:14) like chat GBT like, hey, we need a great
(44:16) refund cancellation chargeback policy
(44:19) for our pickle ball or tennis club. What
(44:21) can you give me? And then the other
(44:23) thing I would do is I’m sure
(44:25) statebystate regulations also flow into
(44:28) this which is why court reserve we don’t
(44:30) actually give anybody any waiverss or
(44:32) disclosures. You have to get those
(44:33) yourselves. Um I will put a plug out
(44:36) there for Rocket Lawyer. Uh when court
(44:37) reserve first got started before we had
(44:39) an attorney. Uh we actually use Rocket
(44:42) Lawyer for a lot of basic documentation
(44:44) and it’ll do it per state. So it I mean
(44:47) it’s not very expensive. Uh it’s just a
(44:50) monthly fee and you can cancel at any
(44:51) time, but you might want to go out use
(44:53) chat GBT first. Uh and you know, then
(44:56) maybe verify that with your own state.
(44:58) Um yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah, I
(45:02) was going to say chat GBT as a first
(45:03) thought, but yeah, online your state.
(45:05) There’s tons of great resources. The
(45:06) unfortunate truth is you can have the
(45:08) best most rockolid policy ever and still
(45:10) lose. Yep. It’s unfortunate. It
(45:12) definitely helps and definitely
(45:13) increases win rate. But it’s just
(45:14) important to know with this process as a
(45:16) whole,
(45:18) even with the best, you sometimes will
(45:20) still lose, right? Yeah, for sure. It’s
(45:22) a there’s a person on the other end in
(45:25) the card network who’s reviewing
(45:26) documentation and their ability to read
(45:29) and understand and uh choice to read and
(45:33) understand is uh you know, it it throws
(45:37) everything in a whirlwind. Um, it’s a
(45:40) bit of a roller coaster out there, but
(45:42) uh, it is a good call to review things
(45:44) with a lawyer.

(0:00) All right, let’s get started. Welcome
(0:01) everyone. My name is Ashley. Thank you
(0:03) so much for joining us today. I am super
(0:05) excited to call this lady, my friend
(0:08) Susie Anderson of beautiful Utah.
(0:11) Welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. So,
(0:15) we’re going to talk all about pickle
(0:17) ball, pickle ballmies, pickle ball
(0:19) trainings, pickle ball, all kinds of
(0:21) stuff. But what I want to do first is I
(0:24) want to bring up my slides because you
(0:26) guys know we always have something to
(0:27) announce here. So, I’m going to do that
(0:29) from the beginning. So, Susie, you can
(0:31) see my slide. I can sure see them. Okay,
(0:34) great. So, of course, this is us. We’re
(0:36) here today. We’re going to talk all
(0:37) about pickle ball coaching and scaling
(0:39) and it it’s going to be an amazing time
(0:41) together. And then, but I also want to
(0:43) let you know that uh Court Reserve is so
(0:46) excited. We just partnered with Racketex
(0:48) and the City Series Tour. Uh we’re going
(0:51) to be in Philly next weekend. Um it’s
(0:53) going to be exciting. Uh we’re just glad
(0:56) because we know Rackadex is doing such a
(0:57) great job in all kinds of uh tennis and
(1:00) pickle ball and padell and bad mitten
(1:02) and they’re just bringing lots of great
(1:04) clubs together. Um so we are excited to
(1:06) be with them. Actually Jill and I are
(1:09) going to be in Philly. So if you want to
(1:10) come hang out with me and Jill in a
(1:12) couple weeks. Uh we’re going to Philly.
(1:14) Um we’re actually going to do a giveaway
(1:16) on Instagram. Um we’re going to give
(1:17) some tickets away to the Philly stop.
(1:19) So, if you’re not on the Court Reserve
(1:21) Instagram, I would highly recommend that
(1:23) you jump on there and become our friend.
(1:25) And if you have not already signed up,
(1:27) it may be too late this week, but if you
(1:29) can hop a plane to Salt Lake City, uh,
(1:31) Club Pickleball USA, uh, is putting on a
(1:34) phenomenal mastermind. I think there’s
(1:36) like 40 people already going. Um,
(1:38) they’re going to spend a couple days
(1:40) learning, and if you can’t make this
(1:41) week, highly encourage you uh, to make
(1:44) the next one. And we’ll find out when
(1:45) those dates are, usually in the fall.
(1:48) And then, you know, we’re always about
(1:51) helping you guys train and instead of
(1:52) you coming to us, we’re coming to you.
(1:54) So, there’s two new court reserve
(1:56) catalyst tour stops uh this fall. The
(1:59) first one’s in Seattle, Washington, and
(2:01) the second one is up in New Jersey.
(2:03) Again, you can go out to
(2:04) courtreserve.com and learn more about
(2:06) Catalyst and uh we’ll take it from there
(2:09) for sure. All right, let’s get started.
(2:13) I’m so excited. Susie, tell us how did
(2:16) you get into pickle ball? Oh man. Well,
(2:18) I’m kind of a dinosaur because I’ve been
(2:20) playing pickle ball for 11 years, which,
(2:22) you know, some people are like, “It’s
(2:24) been it’s been around that long.” Yes,
(2:25) it’s been around that long. The only
(2:27) people that really beat me out are the
(2:28) people that actually grew up in the
(2:29) Pacific Northwest and they got taught
(2:30) it, you know, at school. But, um, funny
(2:35) story really fast. I I actually picked
(2:37) it up at a local rec center. My
(2:38) husband’s a career firefighter and they
(2:40) would go to work out at the rec center
(2:42) and they saw this, it’s the classic
(2:44) story, this old guy that was playing
(2:46) this weird game and he taught all the
(2:48) firefighters how to play and my husband
(2:50) begged me for 6 months cuz I came from a
(2:51) tennis background, come play this, this
(2:53) game. It’s it’s called pickle ball. I’m
(2:54) like, that sounds like the stupidest
(2:56) thing I’ve ever heard of. Then he tells
(2:57) me the game has three numbers in the
(2:59) score and only two teams. I’m like, it
(3:01) is officially the stupidest thing I’ve
(3:02) ever heard of. So after six months of
(3:05) begging, I was training for
(3:06) long-distance triathlon. I was into
(3:08) halfiron mans at the time. Six months of
(3:10) begging, I finally showed up and I
(3:12) played. And within three months, I’d
(3:14) sold my bike, quit training, was all in
(3:17) on pickle ball, and I was sponsored and
(3:19) playing professionally within two years.
(3:22) Wow. Fast track.
(3:26) So, how did you get to Club Pickleball
(3:28) USA? Um, so Club Pickleball USA, I was
(3:34) um playing professionally at the time.
(3:36) This was back before the PPA tour was
(3:38) around. Um and but and I was also
(3:42) teaching on the side when I was at home
(3:44) and um I happened to meet Mike Egan who
(3:49) is the father of the father and son duo
(3:51) of Club Pickleball USA. Mike looked
(3:54) around to see who could teach him how to
(3:56) play pickle ball and I happened to be
(3:58) the person that had the word of mouth
(4:00) and the branding and he found me. So I
(4:04) started teaching Mike. the end of it was
(4:06) at the end of a summer uh would have
(4:08) been summer of 2020 the end of summer
(4:10) 2020 and Thanksgiving day of 2020
(4:15) uh my student Mike Egan sends me a
(4:18) schematic to an indoor pickle ball club
(4:21) and I said what’s this and he says do
(4:24) you want to be our head pro I’m like
(4:26) heck yes I do
(4:28) and then you know a few days at the
(4:32) beginning of the next week I show up to
(4:33) this used to be a it was a home base,
(4:36) like a Home Depot. I show up, they’re
(4:37) grinding the floors down. You can hardly
(4:39) see anything because of all the concrete
(4:40) dust in the air. And um and that’s where
(4:44) the relationship started. And I I ended
(4:47) up not only being the head pro, but also
(4:49) the founding director. I helped build
(4:51) all the playbased programming, which I
(4:53) later handed off to them. And then I’ve
(4:54) delved into just developing um the
(4:57) coaching academy. That’s amazing. So,
(5:01) what makes uh your journey through
(5:03) pickle ball at the club level so special
(5:06) to you?
(5:08) Um,
(5:11) oh, a lot of things. Um,
(5:15) it was really just it was it was a great
(5:17) opportunity for me. I I needed to leave
(5:19) playing professionally because I needed
(5:21) to stay home and raise my teenagers. And
(5:24) I’m a very driven type A goal.
(5:28) And um I loved that it was this new
(5:32) place to put all my competitive nature
(5:34) in, but it was to be the best club, the
(5:37) best coaching academy, the best coach.
(5:39) Um I loved that that that drive and that
(5:43) progress is very fulfilling to me. Um, I
(5:46) can actually tell you I love coaching
(5:50) way more than I ever love playing
(5:51) professionally because it’s it’s
(5:53) fulfilling not just on a personal level,
(5:55) but I love to see the fulfillment and
(5:57) the growth of my students. It’s very
(5:59) meaningful to see how it enriches other
(6:02) people’s lives as well as my own. and
(6:04) and that’s been probably the greatest,
(6:07) you know, high of the whole scenario is
(6:09) is the connections and the people and
(6:11) the relationships and and just sharing
(6:13) in the growth and that’s what it’s
(6:16) that’s what pickle ball is all about.
(6:17) So, for sure. So, when you were at the
(6:20) club full-time, you know, directing,
(6:22) doing events and programming, how do you
(6:25) decide what to put on the event calendar
(6:28) as far as programming goes or how how
(6:30) does a director learn to do that? Well,
(6:33) it’s a little bit of trial and error
(6:34) because we have two clubs here in Utah
(6:37) now and technically we have three
(6:39) locations, but one is like a little
(6:41) satellite extra spillover location
(6:43) that’s 5 minutes from our Sandy club.
(6:45) So, we have we have our ORM club and we
(6:47) have our Sandy club and our demographic
(6:49) in the two counties. These are they’re
(6:51) 25 minutes apart from each other. The
(6:53) demographic is totally different. So, a
(6:57) lot of it is you have to figure out what
(7:00) does your demographic want. Who are
(7:02) they? And and almost any club’s going to
(7:05) have a daytime demographic and an before
(7:08) and after work hour demographic. And you
(7:10) got to know what they both want. And
(7:12) then you start planning the programming
(7:13) around it. And a lot of it is you put
(7:15) stuff on the calendar and you see what
(7:17) fills. You see what they’re excited
(7:19) about. Then you start hearing, you know,
(7:21) you start talking to them. You interact
(7:22) with them. It’s all about community.
(7:24) You’re building this space. So you’re
(7:26) build, you’re creating an experience for
(7:28) them. So you think about it, what
(7:30) experiences, not necessarily what
(7:32) events, but what experiences do my
(7:35) player base want? Figure it out. Add
(7:38) more of them. If they keep filling, you
(7:40) know, it’s like, oh well, how do we
(7:42) Okay, the 35 on Monday nights from 7:00
(7:44) to 9:00 is always full. Okay, what if we
(7:47) did a team night? What if we did a mixed
(7:49) doubles date night? You know, you just
(7:51) start kind of seeing what are the
(7:53) different variations. When you find
(7:54) something that works really well,
(7:56) you know, find some variations. If
(7:58) something doesn’t work, don’t beat the
(8:01) dead horse for very long before you take
(8:03) it off the calendar and put something
(8:04) different on or ask, “Why isn’t this
(8:07) working? Why isn’t this filling?” Talk
(8:09) to your player base. You know, do people
(8:12) just not know about it? Or is the time
(8:14) not right? or you know the the women all
(8:19) want to play at that time but they want
(8:20) to play only with women
(8:22) not with not mixed gender and so it a
(8:25) lot of it is is learning what you want
(8:28) our Sandy club they want events all day
(8:31) long I mean we run bazillions of
(8:33) roundroins kings courts paddle battles
(8:35) the whole shebang my ORM location they
(8:38) actually like open play and booking
(8:39) their own courts our our we don’t fill
(8:42) as many events in the evenings we do but
(8:44) not in the daytime time. And so it’s
(8:46) just
(8:49) you try, you come up with an idea, you
(8:51) put it on the calendar, you try it, you
(8:52) collect the data, you got to have a way
(8:54) to collect the data, and then you make
(8:56) an adjustment or you keep adding to. And
(8:59) so it’s really get to know your players,
(9:03) make smart decisions, collect the data
(9:06) quickly,
(9:08) and make adjustments. So, is there an
(9:11) event or a program that surprised you
(9:13) that you were surprised that it took off
(9:15) as well as it did? Maybe. I haven’t had
(9:18) any that I don’t I wouldn’t say that
(9:19) I’ve had some that surprised me that
(9:21) they did take off. I’ve had some that I
(9:23) was really surprised were total flops.
(9:27) For interesting, in the coaching academy
(9:29) world, most of my most of my pickle ball
(9:31) players out here in Utah are pickle ball
(9:33) players. Not me, not you go, you know, I
(9:36) support a club out in Chicago. There are
(9:38) tons and tons of tennis players that
(9:40) come in. So, cardio pickle ball or like
(9:44) live ball, which are both kind of tennis
(9:47) events that we’ve changed into pickle
(9:49) ball. My Utah players, they hate them.
(9:52) They won’t sign up for them. I know
(9:54) places in California and places in big
(9:56) tennis communities, they cannot get
(9:58) enough of cardio pickle ball and
(9:59) liveball. They love them, but they’re
(10:01) familiar with them. My pickle ball
(10:02) players, they’re like liveball, which I
(10:04) think is a great event, but they’re it’s
(10:06) more of a pressurized fastpaced event
(10:10) where they’re still learning, but
(10:11) they’re like, “How do I win?” And it’s
(10:14) like, “There isn’t a winner.
(10:17) It It’s not It’s not something you can
(10:19) win. It’s your health. Your health is a
(10:21) winner. It’s the It’s your health.
(10:24) You’re moving more. you’re, you know,
(10:26) but you’re also practicing your shots in
(10:27) a high pressure situation and
(10:31) but they’re like, how do I win? I’m
(10:34) like, we you don’t. Well, why do I want
(10:37) to do that? Okay, so we’ll take that off
(10:39) the calendar. Yes. Quickly. Yes. Yes.
(10:41) Yes. Right. Or or we had a we had a flex
(10:43) league that we offered multiple
(10:45) different times. It was like the same
(10:47) league, but there but it was on but
(10:49) there were so many options. Nobody took
(10:51) any of the options.
(10:54) like we thought that Devon and I were
(10:55) talking about the other day. We’re like,
(10:56) “Remember the Kings League?” And we’re
(10:57) like, “Yeah, that stunk.” Um, you know
(11:00) what I mean? It’s but we thought it was
(11:01) going to be the great idea and it’s
(11:03) like,
(11:06) okay. So, yeah, I was more surprised by
(11:08) the flops than I was by the successes.
(11:10) That’s good to know though because
(11:11) again, like even at Old Coast Pickle
(11:13) Ball, we’ve had to completely take
(11:15) things off the calendar that we thought
(11:16) were going to be big hits and like when
(11:18) two people sign up, you’re like, “No,
(11:20) we’re not doing this again.” like
(11:24) that. All right, let’s talk about
(11:26) coaching because you have a passion for
(11:28) coaching. You have created an entire
(11:30) coaching program. Uh tell us how did you
(11:34) get started? Where did this start from?
(11:37) And let’s just start talking about your
(11:39) coaching program. So,
(11:43) um, by nature of limited time, I had I
(11:48) had coaches and I needed to train them
(11:49) and I needed to mentor them. And I found
(11:53) rather than trying to mentor them all in
(11:54) person or have them spend all this time
(11:57) shadowing me,
(11:59) I knew how every skill and every drill
(12:02) should be taught. And so, I I happened
(12:05) to come from a background. I I got a
(12:07) degree in commercial photography. I was
(12:08) a I was a commercial photographer for 16
(12:10) years before I started into my second
(12:12) career. I haven’t figured out what my
(12:14) third career will be when, you know, but
(12:16) for right now, we’re on number two. Um,
(12:19) so I started filming
(12:22) for my coaches because I have 13 coaches
(12:25) over two locations. One location’s 45
(12:28) minutes from my house, one location’s 15
(12:30) minutes from my house. So, I’m like, how
(12:32) am I going to train all these coaches
(12:35) and be time efficient? So I videoed
(12:37) everything.
(12:38) Um so every skill and every drill that
(12:42) is taught in my club is videoed. The
(12:44) other thing that I felt was so so
(12:46) important in creating value in our
(12:50) training academy is we all had to be on
(12:51) the same page. They couldn’t go to coach
(12:54) Bob and get taught how to hit a third
(12:56) shot drop and then come to coach Susie
(12:58) and get taught a whole different
(13:00) technique of hitting a third shot drop.
(13:02) that student is now saying where was my
(13:04) money well spent.
(13:06) And while there isn’t
(13:09) necessarily my way is the only way to
(13:11) teach,
(13:13) there has to be consistency to bring
(13:16) value to your brand. And so I’m like, I
(13:17) got to get all these coaches on the same
(13:19) page. There’s got to be continuity. It
(13:21) also takes away the competition between
(13:22) coaches. Then people are picking coaches
(13:24) based on the personality that fits them
(13:27) and less about this one does this better
(13:30) and this one does this better. It’s
(13:31) we’re all doing the same thing. We
(13:33) deliver it maybe subtly different
(13:34) because of our personalities, but it’s
(13:37) the same, you know, structure that we’re
(13:39) teaching. So, I filmed everything.
(13:42) That’s the way I’m teaching everything.
(13:44) And then I’ve realized as all these
(13:45) clubs are popping up, so many places
(13:49) don’t have a me.
(13:52) How do they build an academy if they
(13:54) don’t have somebody that can write the
(13:56) curriculum, that can train all the
(13:57) coaches, get all the coaches on the same
(13:59) page? it was already digitized. So, not
(14:02) only do I support my two clubs here in
(14:04) Utah and my 13 coaches where I am boots
(14:07) on the ground coaching on, you know, the
(14:10) courts, but I support nine othermies
(14:13) outside of the state of Utah with
(14:15) curriculum, with coach training, with
(14:17) continuing education with their coaches.
(14:19) Um, and it it it it brings
(14:24) value to your club to have a great
(14:27) coaching academy because now you’re a
(14:29) one-stop shop for everything that a
(14:31) pickle baller needs. There’s fun,
(14:34) there’s community, there’s growth,
(14:37) there’s a pathway to pro of progressing,
(14:40) all the things that bring everybody into
(14:42) this great sport, right? And then they
(14:45) keep it keeps them there in your gloves.
(14:47) I love the progression part because
(14:49) coming from tennis, right, it takes
(14:52) sometimes years for people to be able to
(14:54) go out and accurately like even do a set
(14:57) in tennis because of how big the court
(14:59) is and how the strokes are and
(15:01) everything. And that’s what we’ve heard
(15:03) in the pickle ball world is how do I as
(15:05) a coach transition from lessons in
(15:07) tennis to being lessons in pickle ball?
(15:09) How have you helped people see that and
(15:12) the value in that and and the value in
(15:14) this way of coaching? Absolutely. Um,
(15:17) so,
(15:19) um, I’ll address it kind of in two ways
(15:21) because you’ve talked about like a
(15:22) tennis coach switching to pickle ball
(15:24) and it’s not many tennis. Um, I recently
(15:29) worked with um all the tennis coaches
(15:32) for Cliff Dale Tennis and um and helping
(15:36) them to see there’s some great things
(15:38) from tennis that we bring into pickle
(15:40) ball and then there’s things that we’re
(15:41) going to leave in tennis and we’re going
(15:43) to do them different in pickle ball
(15:45) because it’s a smaller court, it’s
(15:47) different equipment, it’s a paddle and a
(15:50) hard ball. Um because the court’s
(15:52) smaller, we move differently. um they
(15:55) bring great things like their ability to
(15:57) load and rotate, all these things. So,
(15:58) there’s lots of things to to bring in
(16:00) and and I address that when I’m training
(16:02) coaches, especially coaches that came
(16:04) from tennis or are teaching in a tennis
(16:06) heavy area, right, of there’s some
(16:10) pretty clear distinctions of keep these,
(16:12) throw these away. Um, and so there there
(16:16) is a shift there and there needs to be a
(16:18) willingness to see the differences,
(16:21) appreciate the differences, and embrace
(16:23) them if you’re transitioning there. Um,
(16:26) when it comes to progression pathways
(16:29) for your students, it’s all about having
(16:31) expectations of what each skill level
(16:33) should be able to do. And in the
(16:36) curriculum that I build for my for my uh
(16:39) inerson and remotemies,
(16:41) there is a progression in in their
(16:45) series. Like we we have a 250 series
(16:47) that’s for two fives. We have a 300
(16:49) series that’s for 3 0’s. The the 300
(16:52) series is giving them the skills that
(16:54) they would need to become a 3.5. We’re
(16:58) already assuming they have the skills of
(16:59) a 3 0, but now we’re going to give them,
(17:02) you know, work on the skills for the 35
(17:04) and we have it set up in a way that it
(17:06) can be ongoing. They can jump in the
(17:08) series any month in the series. They
(17:12) don’t have to start at le one. So, it’s
(17:15) progressive in that the 300 leaves to
(17:17) the leads to the 350, but by nature, I
(17:20) can’t be starting, you know, say it’s a
(17:23) it’s a 12we 12 weeks of lessons. I can’t
(17:26) be starting a new one of those every
(17:27) month. There’s not bandwidth. There’s
(17:30) not court time. And so it’s built out so
(17:32) they could jump in on week five or on
(17:35) week nine
(17:38) and still go through the series. They
(17:40) repeat through, but it but it gives them
(17:42) this beautiful progress. Give it it
(17:44) educates them on the expectations of
(17:45) what they need to know. We’re going to
(17:47) give them the tools. Hopefully they go
(17:50) out and practice. It’s always up in the
(17:52) air, right? Well, that’s true. How how
(17:56) is it that you can take someone who
(17:58) maybe is a great pickle ball player,
(18:00) right? Does that always translate to or
(18:04) translate to being a great coach? Oh,
(18:06) no. The best pickle ball players I know
(18:10) are horrible coaches.
(18:12) And the reason being is a great pickle
(18:15) ball player sometimes they do a lot by
(18:17) feel. They’re that kid that was
(18:19) freakishly athletic. They watch the
(18:22) coach do something and they can just do
(18:23) it. But a great coach can take this is
(18:27) I’m this is a classic student of mine.
(18:30) The stay-at-home mom that is finally an
(18:32) empty neester and all her be girlfriends
(18:34) are playing pickle ball and she doesn’t
(18:35) want to look like a fool and yet she
(18:38) doesn’t have any sports background.
(18:39) Maybe she was a cheerleader. Maybe she
(18:40) was a dancer. Maybe she was the brain
(18:42) and she didn’t do any sports or
(18:44) athletics. and and to take
(18:48) sometimes that really athletic,
(18:51) extremely talented pickle ball player
(18:53) can’t actually talk to that student of
(18:57) this is where I need you to turn this
(18:59) toe and your hip’s going to do this and
(19:01) then you’re going to rotate through. You
(19:04) have to be able to you have to know the
(19:07) technical competencies of every shot,
(19:09) how they inter work and how to actually
(19:10) communicate and get somebody to do that.
(19:13) And some people are visual learners,
(19:15) some people are auditory learners, some
(19:17) people are kinesthetic learners. And you
(19:18) actually have to hold their paddle or
(19:19) their arm or, you know, move their
(19:21) shoulders to get them to do it. And so
(19:24) sometimes that really great pickle ball
(19:26) player, they never had to learn it like
(19:28) that. They could just see it and do it.
(19:31) Like I got a great friend, Tyler Loom.
(19:33) You all know Tyler Loom. And Tyler will
(19:36) admit to you that he’s not the best at
(19:39) coaching. Um Tyler’s great. He’s great
(19:42) with strategy, but like when it comes to
(19:44) mechanics, he just feels it so well and
(19:46) he’s always felt it so well. Breaking it
(19:48) down for him is difficult.
(19:51) Great guy, great player, great at
(19:53) coaching strategy and things like that.
(19:56) But
(19:57) your 25 and your 3 and even your 35,
(20:00) they need mechanics, right? And so
(20:03) having somebody, one of my best coaches
(20:05) is actually 80 years old.
(20:08) Love Bob. That man can teach the
(20:10) beginners. He has the patience. I mean,
(20:12) patience all day long. And and and
(20:14) everybody’s like, one of my young guys
(20:16) was like, “You’re hiring Bob.” I’m like,
(20:17) “Yeah, you just watch.”
(20:20) And he is like the beginner whisperer.
(20:23) So, how do you take an individual who
(20:25) says, “You know what? I want to be a
(20:26) pickle ball coach.” like through your
(20:28) academy and what you’ve done like like
(20:30) give us like the four different things
(20:32) or the five different things like how do
(20:33) you take them from player or maybe I
(20:36) want to coach or I want to learn to
(20:38) being able to like hold their own and to
(20:41) be able to go to a club and get a job as
(20:43) a coach. Um the first thing I’m going to
(20:46) tell anybody to do is get certified. Um
(20:49) I I got my hat on. I’m a coach developer
(20:51) for PPR and an education consultant for
(20:53) PPR. um that means I’m kind of biased
(20:57) towards them, but
(21:00) um if you get certified, say you’re
(21:03) looking, you’re a good player and you
(21:04) want to get you want to move into
(21:05) coaching the sphere, the coaching
(21:07) sphere, and you want to get hired by a
(21:08) club. Any reputable club should be
(21:11) hiring somebody that’s certified. Why?
(21:13) Well, number one, you’re going to come
(21:14) with liability insurance. Number two,
(21:16) you’ve shown that you’re interested in
(21:17) investing in your craft with both time
(21:19) and finances. That you want to be taken
(21:22) legitimately. You’re not just the guy
(21:24) pulling a basket of balls out of the
(21:26) trunk of his car at the city park.
(21:28) You’re more than that. You’re a brand.
(21:30) You’re a professional. Right? And so
(21:32) that the first step in looking
(21:34) professional is get some cred
(21:35) credentials, right? PPR, we focus very
(21:39) heavily on how to coach
(21:43) and what to coach, but there’s a big
(21:45) emphasis on how to coach. We have a
(21:46) level one, we have a level two, um, and
(21:49) we’ve got some more specialty courses
(21:51) coming out as well in the next year.
(21:54) But, um, the first thing I would say is
(21:57) get, um, certified. The second, start
(22:00) practicing.
(22:02) Really learn the components
(22:06) of each of you. We call them the
(22:08) technical competencies. They’d be grip,
(22:11) stance, your paddle prep, shape of the
(22:13) shot, contact point, weight transfer,
(22:15) and your recovery. Those are the five
(22:16) competencies of any shot. If you don’t
(22:21) know those things, well, how are you
(22:23) going to teach somebody? How are you
(22:25) going to know that they’re popping a
(22:27) ball up every time because their stance
(22:29) is wrong or their grip is wrong? You
(22:31) have to know how they inter interact.
(22:33) You have to be the fountain of all
(22:35) knowledge. Your player hits the ball in
(22:36) the net. You must have the answer. So
(22:39) you’ve got to train you got to have the
(22:40) knowledge and you got to train yourself
(22:42) to see the knowledge, right? And that
(22:43) just comes with practice. The other
(22:44) thing, you got to have people skills. At
(22:47) the end of the day, people come back
(22:48) because they like you and you were fun.
(22:51) They have to have a good time. They have
(22:52) to feel good about themselves.
(22:55) The other thing that people forget about
(22:56) being a coach, you’re a salesman all at
(22:59) the same time as being a coach.
(23:02) It sounds sleazy and we all hate it, but
(23:04) at the end of the day, don’t give them
(23:06) all your information in one lesson.
(23:09) Give them enough that they can digest
(23:11) and allude to what’s next and invite
(23:13) them to come back again, right? It’s
(23:15) salesmanship.
(23:17) And so, you have to be comfortable with
(23:19) all those things. But the but the
(23:21) biggest thing is create your own
(23:24) personal brand in essence of who you are
(23:27) as a coach. What are you known for? If
(23:30) you have a personal brand, if you have
(23:31) an identity as a coach, you’re hireable.
(23:35) Word of mouth will go around. You will
(23:38) be a professional. And that’s really
(23:39) what people are looking for.
(23:42) Now, you’ve been in pickle ball a long
(23:43) time, and you probably learn to play
(23:46) pickle ball one way, but teaching
(23:48) someone to play pickle ball today is
(23:51) probably a little bit different than,
(23:52) you know, 11 years ago. What’s the
(23:55) difference now than if you would have
(23:57) done this 11 years ago? Um
(24:01) well, even since I started teaching six
(24:03) years ago, the way we teach the game is
(24:05) different. The game has changed. The
(24:07) paddle technology,
(24:09) um you know, the pro tour with the
(24:10) bigger contracts, more tennis players
(24:12) coming in, the the game is changing.
(24:14) It’s much more offensive. It’s much more
(24:16) aggressive. I I laugh and tell my
(24:18) students, um I’m like, when I was a pro,
(24:20) we would have dink rallies that were 80
(24:23) dinks. 80 dinks. There’s no speedups,
(24:25) guys. 80 dinks. I kid you not.
(24:28) like
(24:30) we were playing with composite paddles,
(24:34) right? You couldn’t do
(24:37) the stuff that they can do now with the
(24:40) paddle technology. And so the game’s
(24:43) gotten much more offensive and and it’s
(24:46) modern. We saw tennis do this when the
(24:48) Williams sisters came in. No longer was
(24:50) it like the, you know, Chris Everett and
(24:52) Stephie Graph days of tennis. It was the
(24:55) Williams Sisters. It was power. It was
(24:56) load and rotate. It was, you know, more
(25:00) spin, open stance, all these things.
(25:02) Well, we’ve seen the same thing
(25:04) happening in the last two years in
(25:05) pickle ball. So, we teach it
(25:06) differently. You know, it no longer are
(25:09) we approaching the net as a wall. We’re
(25:11) approaching staggered because it’s more
(25:13) offensive. Um, you know, we’re not
(25:15) watching our partner hit our third.
(25:17) We’re not dinking for survival. We’re
(25:19) dinking for manipulation to get what we
(25:21) want. I I I hardly even use the word
(25:25) reset when I’m teaching. I teach my
(25:27) students, I want you to hit a neutral
(25:29) ball.
(25:31) Reset to me is so passive. It’s like,
(25:33) uh, now I’m in defense mode. I want to
(25:35) be in defense for as minimal amount of
(25:38) hits as possible and then I’m back in
(25:40) the driver’s seat. Being in the driver’s
(25:41) seat doesn’t mean I’m hitting the crap
(25:42) out of the ball. Being in the driver’s
(25:44) seat means I’m putting a ball somewhere
(25:45) to make my opponent uncomfortable.
(25:48) And I teach a lot about ball
(25:49) recognition. I know what I’m going to
(25:52) hit as my opponent is hitting their shot
(25:56) based on where’s their weight, where’s
(25:59) their paddle, what’s their court
(26:00) positioning. The ball recognition piece
(26:03) starts on the other side of the net.
(26:05) It’s gotten so fast. I can’t decide what
(26:07) I’m doing when the ball’s bouncing in
(26:09) front of me. I have to decide when
(26:10) they’re hitting the ball what I’m doing
(26:12) next. And this is the new more modern
(26:14) way that we’re teaching pickle ball
(26:16) because it’s fast, it’s aggressive, it’s
(26:18) offensive. Aggression and offense isn’t
(26:21) always power. It’s placement. There’s
(26:23) lateral pressure. There’s forward
(26:24) pressure. And and that’s this the style
(26:28) that we teach in mymies. It’s new. It’s
(26:31) modern. It’s up to-date. And it throws a
(26:34) lot of people because there’s lots of
(26:35) coaches still teaching the old way
(26:38) because we’rehead.
(26:40) Yeah, that that’s what I was going to
(26:42) say is, you know, in Florida for
(26:44) instance, you know, you can go out here
(26:45) to the public park and sometimes people
(26:48) are out there being a coach, right? And
(26:51) so now it’s how do we make sure in the
(26:54) future of pickle ball that we are being
(26:56) coached and able to get a hold of
(26:58) coaches to bring them into our
(27:00) facilities that are trained and teaching
(27:03) up to standards of what the play is like
(27:05) today for us as social players. Yeah.
(27:08) And I think that it goes back to, you
(27:11) know, the accreditation. Do they have
(27:14) credentials? Do they have a
(27:15) certification? If they have a
(27:16) certification, you know, and they’re
(27:18) active in their continuing education. I
(27:21) mean, the way when I became a coach
(27:23) developer for PPR 5 years ago versus
(27:26) now,
(27:28) we don’t even talk about the game the
(27:29) same way we did, right? But I’ve stayed
(27:31) involved. It It’s not did you get a cert
(27:35) five years ago and then never do
(27:36) anything more. It’s it’s are you staying
(27:39) active in these organizations that are
(27:42) or that are continually building the
(27:44) sport as it grows and progresses.
(27:47) So if somebody was interested and they
(27:50) wanted to develop their own, you know,
(27:52) training academy at their own club, what
(27:54) are some of the steps that you would
(27:56) encourage them to take in this day and
(27:58) age? Um
(28:01) they need to get a good head pro that’s
(28:03) willing to lead. um whether that head
(28:07) pro is falling in line with support with
(28:10) curriculum, you know, and training with
(28:12) somebody like me or they have the
(28:13) ability and desire to build their own.
(28:17) You’ve got to have somebody that’s going
(28:18) to lead it’s going to be a go-getter and
(28:20) building that continuity. It it you
(28:23) really have to look at it as you’re
(28:24) building a brand.
(28:26) Um that’s what you want from your
(28:27) coaching academy, not just we’ve got
(28:29) these five guys that teach pickle ball
(28:32) when they have extra time. Like there’s
(28:34) got to be some organization,
(28:37) you know, just like you have
(28:39) organization to the rest of your club
(28:41) management. This you can’t have
(28:44) organization and and value and brand
(28:46) identity everywhere and then just here’s
(28:50) these schlubs that teach for us,
(28:53) right? Make it all professional.
(28:56) Um, and so you have to find somebody
(28:59) that’s willing and interested in in
(29:00) leading that way. Some some clubs I mean
(29:03) I believe you only have two courts at
(29:05) Old Coast, right? We do. That’s correct.
(29:07) I mean a smaller club, two to four
(29:09) courts, even six courts. It’s realistic
(29:11) to think that your director could also
(29:12) be your head teaching pro.
(29:15) They’re going to have to have at least
(29:16) one or two more probably teaching pros
(29:19) below them because they can’t carry all
(29:22) the directorship and all the teaching on
(29:25) their own. Maybe on two courts they
(29:27) probably could, but you get into the,
(29:30) you know, the four and the six courts,
(29:33) but it’s it’s just it’s having clear
(29:34) expectations and a vision and a brand
(29:37) and really being polished and finding
(29:40) somebody that that’s how they’re going
(29:42) to operate. And like I said, the best
(29:44) player isn’t always the best coach. So,
(29:47) what do you think when clubs andmies or
(29:49) or clubs and facilities, they’re they’re
(29:51) they’re ready to take the next step,
(29:53) right? they want to hire this head pro,
(29:55) this club director. What are some of the
(29:58) the best things they can look for
(30:00) besides, hey, yeah, I’ve have I have my
(30:02) certification, right? How do you how do
(30:04) you bring somebody in and hire the right
(30:06) head pro or club director? Um, well, I
(30:12) always tell my clubs that I support
(30:14) that, you know, that they’re looking for
(30:17) um coaches. I’m like, well, I’ll ask the
(30:19) owner. I’m like, well, do you play
(30:20) pickle ball? They’re like, yeah. I’m
(30:22) like, then go take a lesson from this
(30:25) person.
(30:27) It’s don’t even tell them you’re looking
(30:30) to approach them, to hire them. Just go.
(30:32) It’s like see being a secret shopper.
(30:35) Um, go take a lesson.
(30:37) Uh, are they professional? Did you learn
(30:40) something? Uh, was it organized?
(30:45) You know, have an idea in your mind of
(30:47) what qualities you would want in a
(30:49) headpro?
(30:51) you know, professional, organized, stays
(30:53) on task, all those kind of things, like
(30:55) actually delivers some value. If you if
(30:58) those things show up in the lesson,
(31:00) well, then approach them because there
(31:02) are a lot of coaches that are just kind
(31:04) of freelancers doing their thing here
(31:06) and there, and you’ll have some that are
(31:07) building a brand even though they kind
(31:10) of teach here and they teach here and
(31:11) they teach here. But if they’re if
(31:14) they’re professional, they’re organized,
(31:15) they’re building a brand, you actually
(31:17) like the product they delivered from
(31:19) your secret shopper experience, that’s
(31:21) the kind that you go and approach and be
(31:22) like, “We’ve got a club and we need a
(31:24) head pro. Is that something you’re
(31:25) interested in?” I love it. So when
(31:28) you’re, you know, 11 years ago and and
(31:30) you came to Club Pickleball USA and, you
(31:33) know, you’ve been there for a while now,
(31:34) what are some of the the, I guess,
(31:36) benefits or, you know, things that
(31:39) coaches are being offered today that you
(31:41) see as something that’s powerful
(31:43) because, you know, we’re trying to make
(31:45) this is a profession that wasn’t around
(31:46) 10 years ago, being a professional
(31:48) pickle ball coach or a head pro of a
(31:50) pickleball club. So what are some of
(31:51) those benefits? Like I don’t know,
(31:54) insurance is important, regular
(31:56) benefits. How do clubs how do they
(31:58) provide the extra benefits to gain these
(32:01) good pros and and directors at their
(32:03) clubs?
(32:04) So, um
(32:07) I have
(32:11) I I feel like coaches, pickle ball
(32:12) coaches are interesting. If I were
(32:14) looking at it from a club owner, we
(32:18) actually pay all of our pickle ball
(32:21) coaches. It’s all commission based. You
(32:24) eat what you hunt.
(32:26) Um because I’ve seen it happen in other
(32:29) way. It’s different for a director
(32:31) because they have lots of things that
(32:33) they’re doing on the director side,
(32:35) organizing, managing that can’t really
(32:38) be commissionbased as well. But I found
(32:41) pickle ball coaches are a little bit
(32:43) interesting. If you don’t keep them
(32:44) motivated, they take advantage. I’ve
(32:46) seen it happen in multiple clubs and so
(32:50) and and most of them right now are still
(32:52) freelancers.
(32:54) Okay? You know what I mean? All of our
(32:56) all of all of our coaches are, you know,
(32:59) on a 1099. They’re they’re a contractor.
(33:02) Um
(33:04) but uh a director and a head pro would
(33:07) be different. Um
(33:10) and so but the benefit that these
(33:12) coaches are getting is
(33:15) um they get exposure to all the
(33:18) clientele that the club is bringing in.
(33:20) people that they’re not going to get
(33:22) exposed to by just wandering around the
(33:24) city park. Um they have a guaranteed
(33:27) court. Rain, wind,
(33:31) you know, lights out, whatever. They
(33:33) have a guaranteed court that’s going to
(33:35) be there no matter the weather, no
(33:37) matter how busy the courts are. Do you
(33:39) know what I mean? A guaranteed court. Um
(33:42) they have, you know, it’s it’s a place
(33:44) to hang your shingle, right? We put
(33:46) banners with a QR code that this, you
(33:49) know, that shows our coaches, you know,
(33:52) here’s here’s coach Josh Peterson. This
(33:54) is his duper. This is his favorite shot.
(33:56) This is how long he’s been playing. And
(33:57) here’s a QR code. Scan this if you want
(34:00) to, you know, lesson with Josh. And it
(34:03) immediately populates your phone with a
(34:05) text message. Hey Josh, I want a pickle
(34:07) ball lesson from you. Tada. Easy. You
(34:10) don’t get that at the park, right? You
(34:12) don’t get a business card with your
(34:14) phone number on a front desk where
(34:16) hundreds of people walk by. And so the
(34:21) biggest benefit is the exposure, the
(34:24) home base,
(34:26) um the community, we’re offering more
(34:29) training, right? They’re getting
(34:30) curriculum provided that, you know, we
(34:33) fill the classes, they show up and teach
(34:34) them. And so there’s lots of benefits
(34:38) in
(34:40) essentially the hunter gatherer
(34:42) mentality for those coaches even though
(34:44) we’re not providing you know insurance
(34:48) and all those other things for them. It
(34:50) would be different story if I’m hiring a
(34:51) full-time director head pro. That’s
(34:54) great though because I do think it’s the
(34:55) hunter gatherer. It’s you got to be your
(34:57) own salesperson. You got to go out and
(34:58) create your portfolio of clients for
(35:01) sure. So I love that. So, what is the
(35:04) best thing that you get to do when you
(35:07) are supporting? I know you have several
(35:08) clubs that you’re already working with
(35:10) with your academy. What What’s the best
(35:12) thing like when you get out of bed in
(35:13) the mornings and you know you get to
(35:14) work one of those. What’s the best thing
(35:16) for you about that? Um, so I love it
(35:20) without fail. So, when I onboard new
(35:23) what I call my remotemies, the ones that
(35:25) are outside of Utah that most of the
(35:27) most of them just most of the time 99%
(35:30) of the time they’re getting the digital
(35:31) version of me. But when they choose to
(35:32) on board in person and I show up for a
(35:35) one or two day visit, my favorite is
(35:38) blowing their minds with this new modern
(35:41) way of pickle ball because most places
(35:45) don’t see it or teach it. I’ll show up
(35:48) and I’ll start hitting a third shot drop
(35:49) and their coaches are like, “How do you
(35:52) do that?”
(35:54) And I’m like, “Well, let me show you.”
(35:55) and I break it all down and then they go
(35:57) and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, that
(35:59) isn’t even that hard to do, but look at
(36:01) how effective that is.” Or I have a way
(36:04) that I that I divide the court up into
(36:07) into chunks visually and and these
(36:10) different lanes on the court give me
(36:13) expectations. If I put a ball here, I’m
(36:15) expecting it to come back. And this is
(36:16) how we teach people to build points.
(36:19) Well, I’ll get out there and I’ve got
(36:20) these coaches that are just kind of
(36:24) greeny coaches still, right? And I teach
(36:26) them this and they’re seeing it happen
(36:28) in their own game. I remember I went and
(36:30) onboarded in Cleveland and I had this
(36:32) guy and I was teaching him. I’m like,
(36:33) “If you put a ball here, you should
(36:35) expect it coming back here.” And we
(36:37) started playing and he had like three
(36:41) like clean putaway winners. Nobody
(36:44) touched him based off of this pattern
(36:47) and this new mentality because he
(36:49) positioned his body different because of
(36:50) his expectation was different and he was
(36:53) so excited that he was now doing it for
(36:55) himself and he couldn’t wait to go share
(36:57) it with everybody else. And so it’s it’s
(36:59) blowing their minds with this new way of
(37:04) seeing the court teaching your students
(37:06) modernizing, you know, like it’s just
(37:09) stuff that hasn’t even they didn’t know
(37:11) what they didn’t know. And and I just I
(37:14) love I love their faces when they light
(37:16) up. He was so excited about those
(37:17) winners in Cleveland. He was so excited.
(37:20) So you take those those like almost like
(37:23) fresh, right? And you teach them
(37:25) something new. How do you how do you
(37:27) handle also teaching them when they have
(37:29) to go back to their own facility, their
(37:31) ownies, and now they’re going to
(37:33) integrate everything that you’ve taught
(37:35) them or learned? How the
(37:36) overwhelmingness of that, right? How do
(37:38) you help them not become overwhelmed
(37:40) with all this new stuff? Um, there’s
(37:43) tons of online support. Like I said,
(37:45) every skill and every drill that’s in
(37:47) any lesson that they lesson plan that
(37:49) they have access to, it has a QR code
(37:52) right next to it. It has a written
(37:54) version and a QR code. They have access
(37:57) to the digital version of me at any
(38:00) time. There’s a vault of over 300 videos
(38:04) of skills and drills they could peruse.
(38:06) And so, there’s tons and tons of online
(38:08) support that they have access to me. And
(38:11) even my own coaches will use it too.
(38:13) They’re like, “Oh man, I got this
(38:14) person. They need to work on their
(38:16) swinging volley and I don’t know what
(38:17) drills.” And it’s like I’m like, “Get on
(38:19) the vault.” So they get on the vault and
(38:22) they’re like, “Oh, it’s right there.”
(38:23) Boom.
(38:25) So there’s lots and lots of of support
(38:27) that they can access at 3:00 a.m. at
(38:30) 5:00 a.m. when I’m on vacation.
(38:34) 24 hours. Susie, it’s slightly scary. I
(38:38) have a lot of students and even some of
(38:39) my coaches, they’re like, “You’re the
(38:41) voice in my head. I hear you talk to me
(38:43) all the time while I’m playing.” I’m
(38:44) like, “That’s creepy.” That’s awesome. I
(38:46) love that. Well, so you know, you’ve
(38:49) you’ve done this now. You you’ve done
(38:51) the director, the head pro, you’ve
(38:54) played professionally. You’ve created
(38:56) the Susie Anderson Academy. So, I mean,
(38:59) like, what’s next? We’ve already talked
(39:00) about the third career. It’s not there
(39:02) yet. What’s What’s next for the academy
(39:04) right now? So, what are you looking
(39:05) forward in the next couple years?
(39:07) Um, so I’m still I’ll still continue to
(39:11) teach and support ummies
(39:14) uh because I love it. I love the PE.
(39:16) It’s it’s the people aspect. Um, but I’m
(39:19) looking uh they I’m I’m going to be
(39:23) doing some education consulting with
(39:24) PPR. Uh, for those who don’t know, it’s
(39:27) the professional pickle ball registry
(39:29) registry. We’re one of the the governing
(39:31) bodies of how the sport is taught. um
(39:35) and helping
(39:37) more. The next level up is coaching the
(39:40) coaches.
(39:42) Um and so
(39:45) running more of those workshops, helping
(39:47) develop more more content um with PPR.
(39:52) And so that’s kind of my next adventure
(39:54) into being creative and developing more
(39:58) um to help the pickle ball community on
(40:01) how to learn and how to play better. And
(40:04) so, you know, taking some more roles
(40:06) there and not to like toot my own horn,
(40:09) but I I they I was the PPR the 2025 PPR
(40:12) pro of the year. So, just a bigger
(40:14) bigger Wow. Yeah. So just a bigger a
(40:18) bigger role with PPR in the in the
(40:20) future is kind of you know where I’m I’m
(40:23) looking um
(40:26) but you know more consulting with them
(40:28) at the time you know you know at this
(40:30) time as we move forward but looking more
(40:32) on education educating coaches as much
(40:34) as as players. Well congratulations. I
(40:37) did not know that. It’s welld deserved
(40:39) for sure. Every time I turn on social
(40:41) media and PPR you’re there. So it’s
(40:43) awesome. Um, you know, Court Reserve, we
(40:45) deal with a lot of clubs. There’s a lot
(40:47) of entrepreneurs in the world now. They
(40:49) all want to open up a pickle ball club.
(40:51) They all just see the money, right? And
(40:54) then, you know, what we want to do is
(40:56) help educate people because you got all
(40:57) these public park social players. And
(41:00) how do you see in the next coming years
(41:03) that these clubs and franchises are
(41:06) going to kind of change the way pickle
(41:08) balls played? Because 20 years ago there
(41:10) there wasn’t really a pickle ball club
(41:12) out there. Now they’re a lot. They’re
(41:14) almost everywhere.
(41:16) They are. Um,
(41:19) and it’s always as as I’ve as I’ve seen,
(41:22) you know, we’ve even had clubs, you
(41:24) know, come and go already here in Utah.
(41:27) And it’s that fine balance of the
(41:30) passion for the sport and actually good
(41:32) business sense of finding that balance
(41:35) to make the club successful. I think um
(41:38) it’s been shocking to a lot of people um
(41:42) opening clubs how um we’re going to call
(41:45) it nice how frugal pickle ball players
(41:47) are. Yes, good word. Uh
(41:52) so that was my that was my professional
(41:55) label for that. Um
(41:58) pickle ball players while yes there’s a
(42:00) lot of money in pickle ball, they’re
(42:02) interesting on how they spend their
(42:03) money in pickle ball. And I think it’s
(42:05) still because, you know, it’s the wild
(42:07) west and there’s so many public courts
(42:09) still available. Do you know what I
(42:10) mean? And but I think the biggest thing
(42:14) in growing these clubs as we move
(42:17) forward is it’s it’s it you’re creating
(42:19) an experience. You’re creating a
(42:21) community. That is what they are drawn
(42:23) to. That is what they will pay money
(42:25) for. and and and that’s that’s what
(42:29) separates the successful clubs from the
(42:32) ones that don’t do as well is is paying
(42:36) attention to their community. Have your
(42:38) front desk needs to know the names of
(42:39) the people. Interact with the people. I
(42:42) want I want players after they’ve left
(42:44) my court to feel like they’re my friend,
(42:46) not just my student. Um,
(42:49) and and that’s that’s I think the really
(42:52) the the secret sauce to making these
(42:54) clubs successful
(42:56) is
(42:57) really building the experience in the
(42:59) community and making sure that you’re
(43:01) doing it in a business smart way.
(43:06) It’s not double down on making your your
(43:09) club the fanciest club because remember
(43:12) pickle ball players are frugal. So,
(43:15) there’s always that that fine balance as
(43:18) these clubs move forward with success is
(43:20) keeping all of that in mind. Um, I think
(43:24) it’s going to be exciting to see where
(43:26) this goes. I mean, I think everybody’s a
(43:28) little bit on pins and needles. It’s
(43:30) like, are we going to be like raetball
(43:31) that we’re going to boom and then
(43:32) fizzle? You know, are we the next frozen
(43:35) yogurt shops? Do you remember when
(43:36) frozen yogurt shops were popping up
(43:38) everywhere and now there’s not as many
(43:40) frozen? I I really hope that’s not our
(43:42) case. I hope that we continue with a
(43:44) beautiful long journey like tennis has
(43:48) um you know and other sports and I think
(43:49) we can because there’s so much community
(43:52) in this game but that’s the key is the
(43:56) community the accessibility
(43:58) keep that that’s that’s pickle ball at
(44:01) its truest right um not elitist in any
(44:06) way and and I think that’s the biggest
(44:08) focus as we grow and we want to continue
(44:12) because at the end of the day, abundance
(44:14) mentality, right? There’s enough pickle
(44:15) ball players for everybody. Oh, yeah.
(44:17) For sure. Yeah. It’s how you do it. For
(44:20) sure. So, I was watching a match the
(44:22) other day and of course, you know,
(44:24) tennis versus pickle ball because I I
(44:26) still play a lot of tennis as well. And
(44:28) I was watching and every time I I
(44:29) watched whether they had a good point, a
(44:31) bad point, whether they needed
(44:33) encouragement or just needed somebody to
(44:35) yell at, they were always like looking
(44:36) up in their box, right? They had this
(44:38) box of people, this section of people
(44:39) that was their coaches and their family
(44:41) and everything. Who is in Susie
(44:44) Anderson’s box right now? Who’s in my
(44:48) box? Um, well, I got a husband and two
(44:51) great kids that cheer for me. Um,
(44:54) and I’ve got uh so um but yeah, they
(44:59) they put up with all my crazy ideas um
(45:02) and my crazy hours on court. Uh
(45:07) but um probably one of my biggest
(45:09) motivators. It’s going to be all
(45:10) sentimental, but my mother
(45:12) uh is is probably my biggest motivator.
(45:15) She’s in my box, but she’s in my box
(45:17) from heaven cuz she passed away when I
(45:19) was 14, but she was my biggest
(45:20) cheerleader as a kid growing up uh
(45:23) playing tennis. And so there’s always
(45:25) this little piece of me that’s like make
(45:27) mom proud. Um, and I know she’s in my
(45:30) box, but it it’s great to have the
(45:31) support that I have at home with my
(45:33) husband and my and my kids. Um,
(45:37) so my son loves to brag to everybody.
(45:39) He’s at the US Coastg Guard Academy
(45:41) that, you know, cuz they have pickle
(45:43) ball as an elective and they have a
(45:45) pickle ball club at the Coastg Guard
(45:46) Academy and so, you know, they’ll bring
(45:49) it up and and he’s like, “Yeah, well,
(45:52) let me tell you about my mom.” And
(45:54) they’re like, “Whatever.” And he’s
(45:55) they’re like, “What’s her name?” and
(45:57) they they Google me and I show up and
(46:00) they’re like, “Is this your mom?” And
(46:01) he’s like, “Yeah.” And he looks just
(46:03) like me, so it helps. So, that’s
(46:06) amazing. It’s kind of cool to have my
(46:08) kid that I think is so amazing at the
(46:10) Coast Guard Academy actually bragging
(46:11) about his mom that’s pretty good at
(46:12) teaching people how to hit a plastic
(46:14) ball. That’s awesome. I love it. I love
(46:17) that. That’s awesome. All right. So, if
(46:19) somebody needs help with their club, if
(46:21) somebody wants to create an academy, if
(46:23) they want to teach or train their own
(46:25) coaches, how do they get a hold of you?
(46:27) How do they reach out to you? How can
(46:29) they get your advice and help?
(46:31) Absolutely. So, I dropped it in the
(46:33) chat. Um, you can find me at
(46:35) suzieandersonacademy.com.
(46:38) Um, if you go slashcoaching,
(46:41) uh, but if you just go to
(46:42) suzieandersonacademy.com,
(46:45) uh, you’ll see me there. Uh, but yeah,
(46:47) here’s the coaching page. If you scroll
(46:49) down, you can go to clubs and
(46:50) facilities. Um, you can click on there
(46:53) and I do give a free 30-inute
(46:55) consultation. Um, just to let you know
(46:58) how I support, you know, more in detail
(47:00) how I support clubs, what your needs are
(47:02) as a club. I offer full lensure of my
(47:06) curriculum and coach training as well as
(47:09) I do offer just plain consultation
(47:12) hours, too. If you’re like, we don’t
(47:13) want to buy all in on, you know,
(47:14) curriculum, but we would really love
(47:16) some help and some of your expertise, I
(47:17) also am available
(47:19) just on a consultation basis as well.
(47:21) But I love to help clubs grow. Um, I
(47:24) think that’s one of the greatest ways
(47:25) that I can help influence even further
(47:27) than just my little sphere in Utah and
(47:30) the sport that’s brought so much just
(47:33) vibrance to so many lives. I just I love
(47:36) it. All right. Well, before we go, we
(47:38) have a couple of questions. Uh, of
(47:40) course, we’re going to record this
(47:41) today. We’re going to put it up on
(47:42) YouTube and then you guys um can see it
(47:45) on the court reserve YouTube channel. Um
(47:47) there’s a great question here actually
(47:49) for you. What certification
(47:51) um when you talk about certification? We
(47:54) talked about the PPR certification. What
(47:56) should the pros have and how do they get
(47:58) it? Do they have to go online? Do they
(48:00) have to go in person? Like how do they
(48:01) get certified? Perfect. So,
(48:05) um, they have there’s IPA,
(48:07) there’s PCI, and there’s PPR, and RPO. I
(48:11) believe there’s four. Now, um, I can
(48:15) tell you what it takes for PPR. PPR, you
(48:19) uh, you go to PPR, uh, pickleball.org.
(48:22) You can sign up for a workshop. You have
(48:24) to become a member of PPR and you have
(48:26) to sign up for a workshop. Um, you’d
(48:28) start with level one. Level one is uh 3
(48:32) hours online and then eight hours on
(48:33) court with a coach developer like me. Um
(48:36) and then you you know we grade you.
(48:38) There’s three different levels that you
(48:39) could be graded at. Um
(48:42) and then the other nice thing through
(48:44) PPR is if you get certified through PPR,
(48:47) you can pay it’s like 70 bucks a year to
(48:50) get this enormous liability coverage.
(48:52) It’s this big umbrella policy for
(48:54) everybody. And so that’s just great. A
(48:56) lot of the clubs like you to have your
(48:57) own liability. Um, and so that’s just
(49:00) one of the great benefits of PPR. But
(49:02) that’s what a certification would look
(49:03) like is that there’s usually an online
(49:05) and an in-person portion. I believe PCI
(49:08) is all online. Um,
(49:11) I like an in-person piece to it. I think
(49:14) there’s a little more depth to the
(49:16) learning. Um, like I said, I’m biased
(49:18) towards PPR. I’m not knocking on anybody
(49:20) else. I’m just saying I have a favorite.
(49:23) Um
(49:24) um I also think that Sarah Ansbury,
(49:26) who’s built out PPR, is one of the best
(49:30) educators in the sport. Um and uh but
(49:35) yeah, that’s that’s what certification
(49:36) is is going to look like is they’ve got
(49:38) to take a workshop. Now, if you already
(49:40) have coaches and you would like to get
(49:42) them certified, you can contact PPR. You
(49:45) can host a workshop. You’ll get you’ll
(49:47) get a free for the court time. you’ll
(49:50) get a free um registration for the
(49:54) workshop for one of your coaches. Um but
(49:56) we can come out and actually you can
(49:58) host you a workshop at your facility and
(50:01) and we can train your coaches there as
(50:02) well. Yeah, we did that at Old Coast
(50:04) Pickle Ball uh last year actually. We we
(50:06) held a certification um and it was great
(50:08) and and I mean it’s great because then
(50:11) you know that your local coaches also
(50:13) are going to come and they can check out
(50:15) your club, your players know about it
(50:16) because it’s on the calendar. So, um,
(50:18) there’s another question about that. Any
(50:20) thoughts on the IPA certification? Do
(50:24) you know anything about that
(50:24) certification?
(50:26) I do know some about it. Um, my
(50:32) I I don’t know a lot about it. I have
(50:35) trained coaches that are using my
(50:37) lensure that have done an IPA and that
(50:41) um and it they teach a little
(50:45) differently and
(50:48) I do have some concerns if it’s as
(50:50) modern of a version of teaching as we
(50:53) teach in PPPR. Like I said, I’m biased.
(50:56) This isn’t meant to be We’ll leave it at
(50:58) that. Meant to be a slam.
(51:01) All right. Uh a couple other questions.
(51:04) Do you let coaches work at different
(51:05) clubs besides your own?
(51:08) Um, yes.
(51:11) However, in our coaching contract,
(51:13) because we provide curriculum for them,
(51:15) the curriculum does not go anywhere
(51:18) else. They sign that in their coaching
(51:19) contract. We also have a piece in their
(51:22) coaching contract that any studentclient
(51:26) that they gain from interaction at our
(51:30) club and teaching at our club remains a
(51:34) client or student of Club Pickle Ball
(51:36) USA for I can’t remember if it’s 18
(51:38) months or two years after that coach
(51:40) were to leave. Um, so we had it, we
(51:44) didn’t have that written in our
(51:45) stipulation at first, and we had coaches
(51:47) that would come, cuz we’re in Utah,
(51:48) they’d coach all winter long, and then
(51:50) they’d take all their students outside
(51:52) to the public courts. We had that happen
(51:54) a couple of times, and so we altered our
(51:57) um coaching contracts because as the as
(52:01) the club, you’re investing um in them
(52:05) and some loyalty back. We we thought it
(52:09) was a little more given than it was, so
(52:11) we put in writing. Yeah, for sure. But I
(52:13) don’t have a problem with coaches
(52:15) coaching elsewhere as long as the you
(52:19) know, like we provide curriculum that is
(52:21) that is for use only at our clubs. Um
(52:25) you can lock them in if you want. It
(52:27) just it varies kind of club to club. All
(52:30) right. All right. And so the last
(52:31) question that we have, unless we get any
(52:33) more, do most clubs let their pros play
(52:36) in open plays and court bookings for
(52:38) free?
(52:40) Um,
(52:42) so we with our coaches, they start at a
(52:48) membership level where they don’t have
(52:50) to pay the membership fee, but so we
(52:52) have
(52:55) but they still have to pay for court
(52:57) time. I still pay for court time. I’m
(52:59) the head teaching pro. I still pay for
(53:00) my court time. If I go play in the 40
(53:05) round robin, I’m not a 40. The reason
(53:07) I’m playing in a 40 round robin is to
(53:09) market myself as a coach.
(53:12) I don’t play I don’t pay. It’s only five
(53:15) bucks, but I don’t pay to play in that
(53:17) roundroin because I’m there to market
(53:19) myself. Um but um our coaches do get
(53:26) some member benefits. If they are
(53:29) teaching a certain level of volume, they
(53:32) get higher member benefits. So they get
(53:35) the lower court fees. You know, we have
(53:39) a we have different tiers of our
(53:40) membership. So they get rewarded based
(53:42) on their volume. Um you give us more, we
(53:46) give you more. That’s the secret sauce
(53:49) right there. That’s awesome. Motivation,
(53:51) baby. That’s right. Well, thank you so
(53:54) much for joining us. I hope that you
(53:55) guys have enjoyed uh just as much as I
(53:58) have today. We’ll put this up on the
(54:00) YouTube uh channel for court reserve.
(54:02) And if you want to know more about Suz’s
(54:04) Academy, you can click the link we put
(54:05) in the everyone channel or reach out to
(54:07) us at supportcourtreserve.com.
(54:09) Thanks, Susie. Thank you. See you later.
(54:12) Bye. Bye. Bye.

(0:04) Hello everyone. My name is Ashley. I’m
(0:06) with Court Reserve and it is National
(0:08) Tennis Month and we are so excited at
(0:10) Court Reserve today to uh celebrate
(0:12) tennis and to talk about what’s new in
(0:14) the tennis landscape and I’m joined with
(0:17) Gary from the Tennis Congress and Bur
(0:20) from Blake Tennis in Charlotte. Thank
(0:22) you so much for joining us today. Thank
(0:24) you. Thank you. Excited to be here.
(0:27) Awesome. So Gary, tell us a little bit
(0:29) about who you are and your background in
(0:30) tennis and what you’re up to these days.
(0:33) Oh, um, yeah, Gary Unennis. I was born
(0:35) and raised in Johannesburg, South
(0:36) Africa. Came over to the States, uh,
(0:39) played some college tennis, got a
(0:40) scholarship and, um, always loved
(0:42) coaching. Um, right now I’m the director
(0:44) of tennis at Portage Country Club in
(0:45) Akran, Ohio. Um, I have me and my family
(0:48) live out here and we we have a great
(0:50) time with it. And I’m also the director
(0:51) of the Tennis Congress and the Neck
(0:53) Gains Foundation. Um, you know, the both
(0:56) are very very important to me and very
(0:58) special parts of my life. Um, uh,
(1:00) Portage Country Club, this is my seventh
(1:02) summer with the club and, uh, it’s
(1:04) really a a very cool community of of
(1:07) members and, um, Tennis Congress, uh, is
(1:10) equally as important to me and also a
(1:12) very very tight community that, uh, I’m
(1:15) very lucky to be a part of. um both uh
(1:19) you know both both programs uh we really
(1:22) customize um any of any development uh
(1:26) programs that we put together and um
(1:28) yeah I’m happy to be a part of this
(1:30) webinar and and uh happy to be uh be out
(1:32) here with you guys and tell tell more
(1:34) about what we’re doing. Awesome. Very
(1:36) tell us what’s going on with you and and
(1:38) who and how your background came to be
(1:40) where you are today. Perfect. Well,
(1:42) first of all, thanks for inviting me to
(1:45) this webinar, Ashley and Court Reserve.
(1:48) Um, and I I’m one of your clients, so we
(1:50) are using court reserve, of course. Um,
(1:53) and we are happy with it. So, I um and
(1:56) again, my background is tennis. Uh, my
(1:59) life is tennis. I own a tennis club here
(2:02) in Charlotte, North Carolina. And we’ve
(2:05) been in business for 21 years. And I
(2:08) also own Barehead Tennis Consulting. I
(2:10) help other business owners or or someone
(2:14) that wants to start a tennis business, a
(2:16) tennis club. Um, but uh I play college
(2:19) tennis myself at Baylor and ever since
(2:22) then, I guess I started my business in
(2:24) 2000. So now it’s almost 25 years. The
(2:28) club has been here for 21 years. So
(2:30) that’s my small glimpse of my
(2:32) background. All right. Very good. Well,
(2:35) Gary, I want to start with you. Tell us
(2:37) a little bit about Tennis Congress. Like
(2:40) for a lot of the folks that are going to
(2:42) watch this webinar, they may play
(2:43) tennis, watch tennis, but like what is
(2:45) tennis
(2:46) congress? So, in a nutshell, tennis
(2:49) congress is an adult tennis camp and
(2:52) it’s uh kind of like going like like
(2:54) getting away for the weekend with your
(2:56) friends and being surrounded by all of
(2:58) your favorite uh tennis buddies.
(3:00) Everybody the focus uh with the tennis
(3:03) congress uh is adult tennis players. Um,
(3:06) and you know, the the people that come
(3:08) out are the tennis fanatics. They’ve got
(3:11) an obsession with the game. It means
(3:13) more than probably just playing points
(3:15) and and playing matches. It’s it’s a
(3:17) very healthy outlet for them. It’s a
(3:19) foundation for friendship. And so, when
(3:21) you come out to the Tennis Congress,
(3:22) you’re surrounded by not only
(3:25) like-minded individuals that just love
(3:27) the game and want to take it to the next
(3:28) level, but you’re also surrounded with
(3:30) some of the top coaches in the world.
(3:32) Um, we have leaders in the industry come
(3:34) out and provide onc court and offc court
(3:36) training. And that’s one of the most
(3:37) special things about the congress is you
(3:39) go on court and uh you’re working on
(3:42) your skills and drills and all of that
(3:44) all of that fun stuff with some of the
(3:46) best coaches in the industry. And then
(3:48) when you get off the court, you’re going
(3:50) into a ballroom to uh see presentations
(3:52) on singles and double strategy or work
(3:55) with uh one of the fitness uh fitness
(3:57) consultants to work on designing a a
(4:00) fitness program for you to take home or
(4:02) working with a sports psychologist to
(4:04) help you overcome your nerves during
(4:05) matches. So, it’s a very holistic
(4:07) approach to a um a tennis experience.
(4:11) And so many of our of our network of our
(4:14) athletes, they they go home just uh
(4:17) really blown away. Um they take a lot of
(4:19) information back with them and uh it
(4:22) just adds such a special feel to their
(4:24) tennis journey. Yeah. Yeah, and I can
(4:26) say as a adult tennis player, I have
(4:28) attended as a player um two different
(4:31) times now at tennis congress. And I love
(4:33) the fact before I even go weeks ahead of
(4:35) time, you guys are sending me a survey
(4:38) of my game, what kind of player I am,
(4:40) what I want to work on, what my
(4:42) weaknesses, what my strengths are, and
(4:43) once I get there, you’re sending me
(4:45) feedback as a player the entire time
(4:48) about what you as a coach or the coaches
(4:51) have experienced watching me on the
(4:52) court. So, it is I I’ve I’ve never seen
(4:56) anything like it and I really encourage
(4:58) adult players, but like it’s not just
(5:00) about tennis congress because you guys
(5:01) have a heart behind the nonprofit place
(5:05) that the tennis congress brings. So,
(5:06) tell us a little bit about that as well.
(5:08) Yeah. So in 2020 um when we couldn’t do
(5:11) any travel or any any of tennis events,
(5:13) we uh we always had a philanthropic side
(5:16) to our uh to our mission and um that was
(5:18) the Net Gains Foundation and in 2020 we
(5:20) converted into a full nonprofit and um
(5:23) the most recent project that we’ve uh
(5:25) that we’ve launched and and we’re
(5:26) driving is the Rise project and we’re
(5:28) trying to help ATP and WTA players that
(5:31) are outside the top 150 um surround them
(5:34) with resources, surround them with a
(5:36) team um and uh through the tennis
(5:38) congress events, raise enough money to
(5:40) help uh surround them with these with
(5:42) these resources and with these teams.
(5:43) We’ve got such a strong network of
(5:45) coaches that really just love the game.
(5:48) uh a lot of them volunteer their time
(5:49) and offer up uh different resources to
(5:52) help help these players and um you know
(5:55) the that’s that just and then we’ve got
(5:57) this strong network of adult tennis
(5:59) players that also love the game and
(6:02) whether they’ve start whether they
(6:03) played it as a kid or whe they started
(6:04) later in life. Mo most of most of them
(6:07) started later in life. They’ve realized
(6:09) that this the game of tennis has just
(6:11) given so much back to them in their own
(6:13) life that they want to be a part of
(6:14) these journeys. And you know we all love
(6:17) seeing um we all love watching TV. You
(6:20) know we just see Alcarez and Senna in
(6:22) the in the Rome final. What an exciting
(6:23) time. We’re excited to see you know
(6:26) Roland Garas coming up uh next week. and
(6:29) um we follow this game and and we’re
(6:31) passionate about it because we know how
(6:32) much work they’re putting in. And um
(6:35) then as you get to know the game a
(6:36) little bit more, you start to realize
(6:38) that the players that are outside that
(6:40) top 150 are really struggling. And I
(6:43) think we all kind of identify with that
(6:45) as adult tennis players because we kind
(6:48) of know what it’s like to struggle. and
(6:50) so to try to help them uh offset some of
(6:53) that struggle. Um it’s been really cool
(6:55) to see these different pockets of
(6:57) community come together to drive this
(6:59) project forward. And um you know that
(7:02) that’s what’s that’s what’s really
(7:03) special to me. So I’ll tell you at the
(7:05) last tennis congress we were at the
(7:07) Emilio Sanchez Academy in Naples,
(7:09) Florida. And I remember that evening he
(7:12) was talking about the players that are
(7:14) playing in these 1000 level, you know,
(7:17) uh, tournaments and when they win I even
(7:20) even if they win, they’re only winning a
(7:22) couple hundred dollars sometimes or
(7:23) maybe even a thousand dollars. And just
(7:25) the cost of being trying to make it
(7:28) professionally, we always think, you
(7:30) know, NBA and NFL and they’re making
(7:32) millions of dollars and it just is such
(7:34) a different environment for our upand
(7:36) cominging tennis stars. Yeah. No, it’s
(7:39) uh it really is hard for them out there
(7:41) and uh they’re all they’re constantly
(7:42) making the decision and it’s it’s scary
(7:44) when it gets even into the top 200 in
(7:46) the world because like you say NBA uh or
(7:48) baseball or those other sports, they’re
(7:50) riding the team jet and they’re uh got
(7:53) the team trainers and they’ve got all of
(7:54) that where each tennis player is their
(7:56) their own business and they’re really
(7:58) making tough decisions of okay, how how
(8:01) much am I going to go into the red? Do I
(8:02) have enough resources to take the coach
(8:05) with me? Do I have enough resources to
(8:07) spend money on some gear or so or or can
(8:10) I afford to travel to the next uh
(8:12) location? And you know, they they play
(8:14) with that pressure of if I don’t win
(8:16) this, I might not have enough uh money
(8:18) to get to the next spot or I might have
(8:21) to go home and find a way to make some
(8:23) more money to go back out. So, they’re
(8:24) playing with a lot of added pressure um
(8:26) on onto their shoulders. And so that’s
(8:28) that’s where we come in and we we hope
(8:30) we can uh do little things um to to help
(8:33) uh you know take take some of the stress
(8:35) off. One of the most recent things that
(8:37) came out of our time at Amelia Sanchez
(8:39) Academy was there were two uh
(8:41) participants, two athletes um Darlene
(8:43) and Mike Ashwood who have been part of
(8:45) our network for a very long time. And
(8:47) one of the girls that was training at
(8:48) the academy at at Ailio Sanchez um she
(8:51) came to one of our dinners and spoke to
(8:53) us and she was out there training. So,
(8:55) you saw she was putting in the work and
(8:57) there happened to be a um there happened
(9:00) to be a a tournament in Bethany Beach,
(9:02) which is close to where they live. And
(9:04) they contacted me and said, “Hey, if
(9:06) she’d be interested in in uh playing
(9:08) this tournament, we’d love to host her
(9:09) and we’d love to house her.” And so,
(9:11) that’s just a very small example of how
(9:14) how a little bit of help just goes a
(9:16) long way. Um she ended up um you know
(9:19) they ended up housing her. She ended up
(9:20) going there playing the tournament and
(9:22) uh I just received uh yesterday a very
(9:25) nice write back from from them about
(9:27) just what a difference that made because
(9:29) it’s a tournament she probably wouldn’t
(9:30) have even played in but it really helped
(9:32) her development. She had a she had a a
(9:35) result she was very happy with and um so
(9:37) you know sometimes we think it’s about
(9:39) cutting checks for hundreds of thousands
(9:41) of dollars. Of course yeah that that
(9:43) helps but uh it it does that’s not our
(9:46) mo. It’s a it’s all just us doing a
(9:48) little bit to to make a heavy lift seem
(9:50) a little bit lighter and that’s that’s
(9:52) the power of the tennis congress. I love
(9:54) it. Thank you so much for sharing that.
(9:56) Well, I want to kind of move towards Bur
(9:58) and and what you guys have done in the
(10:01) last 20ome years at Blakey Club. Tell us
(10:03) a little bit about what tennis has
(10:06) evolved from and where you see it today
(10:09) from a club owners perspective. Perfect.
(10:12) Um so for us um and even when I do my
(10:18) consulting what I been doing was even
(10:21) our club we are in an area that’s very
(10:24) growing sh is like probably in the top
(10:27) five in the country right now and
(10:29) grows there’s a lot of families moving
(10:32) in our area there’s a lot of kids
(10:33) there’s a lot of ladies even though we
(10:36) are surrounded by country clubs there’s
(10:39) a lifetime tennis
(10:41) three miles down the road there’s
(10:44) enough enough business to accommodate
(10:47) everyone. Um I personally in our club I
(10:52) don’t have any other raet sports that
(10:54) everybody’s doing pickle ball or pedal
(10:57) not yet or I’m not into the trend of
(11:00) rushing to get things done because we
(11:02) have a big demand on tennis and you know
(11:06) we do a lot of marketing on Instagram or
(11:08) Facebook. If I want to need more tennis
(11:10) players we can just market get more
(11:12) players or we do a lot of the new learn
(11:15) tennis programs. uh okay that never
(11:18) played before. We introduce them for
(11:20) seven, eight weeks and then they end up
(11:23) being a member. We are a private club so
(11:26) they have to be a member of the club but
(11:27) we give them a package to get them
(11:29) through the transition to get them
(11:31) excited to start playing tennis and um
(11:34) and that’s the main reason you know next
(11:35) year we’re going to add four tennis
(11:37) courts. At first we thought about doing
(11:39) pickle ball, but every neighborhood has
(11:43) pickle ball, you know, and or pedal is
(11:46) like I feel like pedal in our area is
(11:48) years behind probably and I really I I’m
(11:52) going to stick to my original business
(11:54) plan and continue with our tennis and
(11:56) then and make tennis bigger and even
(12:01) it’s going it’s going nowhere. So, right
(12:04) about that. Yeah. I love that. I and and
(12:06) I know exactly where you are in
(12:08) Charlotte. Um and you are surrounded.
(12:09) There’s there’s clubs all over the place
(12:11) that you can go um and be a member of
(12:14) and I’ve played at your facility. You
(12:16) have such great courts. Your community
(12:18) is great. You do a lot of USA. And I
(12:21) love the fact that you can take an adult
(12:23) person who has never played tennis
(12:25) before and teach them um and go through
(12:28) a program that teaches them the
(12:30) progression. And then what happens to
(12:32) that adult player after that eight
(12:34) weeks? Are you encouraging them to like
(12:35) join a league or like USA or where does
(12:38) that go? Great question. So our goal is
(12:41) you know by we start them with the
(12:42) softball in the beginning maybe orange
(12:44) ball. Okay. And then we transition to
(12:46) green dot after two weeks and you know
(12:49) but they come an 8week program they
(12:52) actually uh they start serving a little
(12:54) bit rally a little bit. Tennis is
(12:56) challenging unlike other sports but some
(12:59) people like challenge really. They are
(13:01) excited. Hey I’m getting better. I’m
(13:03) getting the exercise that I need. Uh I
(13:06) feel great. I’m meeting people. So it is
(13:10) uh our job really uh to get them excited
(13:13) and teach them, educate them what 10 is
(13:16) a lifetime sport. Uh yes, my dad played
(13:18) all the way up to age 85 and uh but
(13:22) really that’s uh the motive behind it
(13:25) really. Yeah, for sure. So, have you
(13:28) seen the continuation of young kids of
(13:31) their parents putting kids in maybe you
(13:34) guys have summer camps or you know
(13:35) tennis programs for juniors? Talk to us
(13:37) a little bit about where you’re seeing
(13:39) kids and juniors these days in like your
(13:41) area. Perfect. So, luckily tennis tennis
(13:45) in Charlotte is huge. Uh like Atlanta
(13:48) area is very big in tennis. Charlotte is
(13:50) one of those cities that is high school
(13:53) tennis is huge. So kids want to play
(13:55) high school tennis, middle school tennis
(13:57) and then we have bunch of kids you know
(13:59) they want to play college tennis. So we
(14:00) have a high performance junior program
(14:02) here and um so again as as an owner also
(14:07) as a tennis coach it’s my job really to
(14:09) to educate those kids and give them some
(14:12) taste of it they through summer camps or
(14:16) we’re doing an after school tennis
(14:17) program and they know they’re happy they
(14:20) are they’re learning and they’re going
(14:21) to continue and it’s our job really to
(14:24) keep them on the game. Absolutely. And
(14:27) you know, we’ve seen, I think, since
(14:29) COVID years of, you know, our kids being
(14:32) inside hooked on video games and not
(14:34) moving and not being athletic and, you
(14:36) know, and so just getting kids outside
(14:38) and in the sunlight and, you know,
(14:41) active again. Like I didn’t grow up with
(14:43) video games, but they’re everywhere,
(14:46) right? A lot of distractions. Yes, for
(14:48) sure. All right. So, I want to kind of
(14:50) move now that we’ve got some ground for
(14:53) where we are, um, for both of you to
(14:55) kind of let’s just have some
(14:56) conversation about some of the biggest
(14:59) shifts that you’ve really seen in tennis
(15:01) coaching uh, methodology over the last
(15:04) five years.
(15:07) Uh, yeah, I’ll kick it off. Um, you
(15:09) know, I think one of the and you’ve seen
(15:12) you you know, you’ve seen a bit of a
(15:13) tennis boom right now and I know it kind
(15:15) of was launched with uh 2020 with co
(15:17) where tennis really was one of the
(15:19) safest things to play, but started
(15:21) happening a bit before that where with
(15:22) the coaching methodology being a little
(15:25) bit more um live play and and get
(15:28) everybody playing as fast as possible.
(15:30) Like I I love that program you you have
(15:32) for adults like orange ball, green ball
(15:34) and in 8 weeks you’re playing tennis
(15:36) where you know I’ve I’ve been coaching
(15:39) tennis in country clubs andmies and you
(15:41) know all all sorts of different spaces
(15:43) and um it’s you’ve started to see that
(15:45) push over the last couple years where
(15:46) it’s like a little bit less about
(15:48) technique and more about hey can we get
(15:51) you playing as fast as possible which I
(15:53) think has been so healthy for tennis
(15:54) because there’s so much addiction to
(15:57) technique and don’t get me wrong it’s
(15:58) technique is super important. It
(16:00) prevents injuries. It’s going to We all
(16:01) want to look uh very graceful and and
(16:03) and smooth when we when we play. And if
(16:06) you want to, you know, hit shots certain
(16:08) ways, you you should uh obviously study
(16:11) uh good technique. But um you know,
(16:13) above that, uh you know, I before that,
(16:16) I would see people taking lessons for
(16:18) years and years and years. And it’s a
(16:20) hard journey tennis. And there’s even
(16:22) even on the professional tour, there’s a
(16:24) lot of quirky little technical issues.
(16:26) But um you know if you can if we can get
(16:29) people playing the game and that’s not
(16:30) just adults that’s kids too. Feel like
(16:33) that’s that’s what’s helping the gra the
(16:35) game grow because before it used to be
(16:37) so lesson based and now we’re starting
(16:40) to see this big push. You’re seeing USA
(16:42) leagues grow. You’re seeing more people
(16:44) on court um enjoying social games which
(16:47) I think has been really healthy for the
(16:48) tennis industry. Um, it’s kind of it
(16:51) swung one way where it was almost like
(16:53) you saw just like live ball and and like
(16:56) that big push to get people playing as
(16:58) quick as possible and sometimes the
(17:00) technique took the back seat. But it
(17:01) seems like right now there’s a bit of
(17:02) both. And um I think that’s that’s a
(17:05) really cool space for the tennis world
(17:07) to be in because I’ve never seen like a
(17:09) group of kids like on a soccer team and
(17:11) they’re like, “No, we only practice and
(17:14) then we go home. We just do foot skills
(17:16) headers and and then we’re out of here.”
(17:18) um we never play matches where you see
(17:20) that a lot in tennis. So, I’m excited to
(17:22) see the journey that that it’s going on
(17:24) as we find that balance between we’re
(17:27) playing matches, we’re we’re getting
(17:28) people playing as quick as possible and
(17:30) learning the technique along the way
(17:32) while we’re enjoying enjoying that time
(17:33) together.
(17:35) Anything to add, Bur about the
(17:37) methodology, what you’ve seen maybe
(17:38) change or get better. I think Gary said
(17:41) it perfectly, but same as I I see with
(17:44) the juniors, you know, we starting with
(17:45) a red ball or the orange ball, you know,
(17:48) the game again, the idea of playing is
(17:52) huge instead of spending too much time,
(17:54) lesson after lesson make it so
(17:56) expensive. I see them, you know, I I see
(17:59) people, you know, learning faster now.
(18:01) Um, and the game is a little bit shorter
(18:02) now, you know, even with the juniors
(18:04) played four games or adults, you know,
(18:07) the third set is a tie break with a USD
(18:10) and all that. I like those small changes
(18:12) or sometime we do no ads. Um, but you
(18:16) know, it’s just again it’s my job again
(18:18) as a coach to educate the client to make
(18:21) sure they’re having a good time. Are
(18:23) they exercising? I I like the aspect of
(18:26) exercising in tennis. You know, it’s low
(18:27) impact in your body. We do a lot of
(18:29) walking. we doing sprinting. Uh but
(18:33) really it’s uh it’s change and again
(18:35) it’s there’s so many instructions you
(18:37) know other stuff that we can get
(18:39) distracted nowadays but it’s as a tennis
(18:42) pro again it’s my job to do my part to
(18:45) educate the clientele that we have. So
(18:48) uh that kind of leads me to my next
(18:50) question. We’ve kind of heard in the
(18:51) industry that we need more young tennis
(18:55) coaches because when you look at some of
(18:57) these organizations that are like
(18:59) certification bodies, we have a lot of
(19:01) older pros that have been on the court
(19:03) 40 or 50 years. How do you think we’re
(19:06) going to fill the shoes of bringing new
(19:09) coaches into the game of tennis in the
(19:12) next couple years?
(19:14) Um, do you mind if I go Gary? Yeah,
(19:17) please do. That’s a tough one. You can
(19:18) have first.
(19:21) So again, I think um to give an example,
(19:25) we have 10 coaches here at the club.
(19:28) Um a lot of I feel like they’re young.
(19:31) I’m 53. I feel like I’m the oldest. Stay
(19:33) the truth. But there’s a lot of uh we
(19:36) have 24 27. I think it it all comes to
(19:40) the incentives to to have a better life.
(19:42) You know, are they making enough money
(19:44) to make a living? Um are they having a
(19:47) good time? Are they taking a day off?
(19:48) Are they are they balancing their life?
(19:51) Um, unfortunately, you know, I’m I’m not
(19:54) a PTA. I think they change the name now.
(19:57) Uh, I’m I’m with PTR. They’re going
(19:59) through changes right now. Um, I think
(20:02) the industry the certifications that are
(20:05) happening, they can do better and that
(20:08) could be improved whether whether it’s
(20:10) joining with USDA or other bodies um to
(20:14) attract this young people that you
(20:15) mentioned. But I think if they for
(20:17) example I give an example there’s a
(20:19) college graduate we just hired. She’s
(20:22) moving from Boston. She she’s graduating
(20:25) with accounting but her passion is
(20:29) tennis. She want to go to tennis. She’s
(20:31) from India. Um which is in that culture
(20:36) you know they probably want to go more
(20:37) into other stuff than tennis. It’s very
(20:39) unusual for her to get this passion and
(20:42) she told her parents listen I want to
(20:43) give tennis a shot. So, and she’s like,
(20:46) “Hey, we gave her a good package to for
(20:49) her to move here.” And I think it’s it’s
(20:51) all about how am I going to make a
(20:53) living and am I going to enjoy my being
(20:56) outside all the stuff. I think that’s
(20:57) it’s all going to come to that.
(21:00) That’s great. What about you, Gary? No,
(21:02) I I I think um you know, when you talk
(21:04) about trying to attract the younger
(21:06) crowd, I I think uh and and just fill
(21:08) that pipeline. Um, I feel like, um, I’ve
(21:12) got a I’ve got a master of tennis
(21:13) certification through the PTR. Um, I’ve
(21:15) got a master certification through the
(21:17) RS RSPA now. That’s what it’s called.
(21:20) Used to be USPTA. Um, and so I’ve I’ve
(21:22) I’ve gone through the education pathways
(21:24) in um in both uh in both bodies, right?
(21:29) And um I I think they do a great job,
(21:31) but I think that it could be a little it
(21:34) it could be a little cleaner and it
(21:35) could be a a little bit easier to
(21:37) navigate because I think it can be a
(21:38) little bit confusing. And there’s there
(21:40) should be some incentive um for them to
(21:43) continue to pursue this this continued
(21:44) ed. I think a lot of the coaches that I
(21:46) when I go to those, they’re great
(21:48) networking because just like the tennis
(21:49) congress, you’re kind of surrounded by
(21:50) these like-minded coaches. Some coaches
(21:52) will lean on their playing career and
(21:54) say, “Hey, I I played at a certain
(21:56) level, therefore I surely am just
(21:58) amazing.” Um, where the stuff that I
(22:01) really got out of it was really um, I
(22:03) did the junior development uh, Master
(22:05) Tennis and you know there’s different
(22:06) ages what you should be focusing on um,
(22:09) you know, and how you should be breaking
(22:10) things down there. There’s so many uh,
(22:13) things that you need to be doing to be
(22:14) constantly learning and and some guys
(22:16) are are doing it behind the scenes. They
(22:18) might be reading articles. they might be
(22:19) doing research and they may not have the
(22:21) certifications that that show the their
(22:24) accolades but um you know I I think to
(22:26) capture the to fill this pipeline
(22:28) because there is a bit of a void I think
(22:30) there there needs to be number one they
(22:33) need to there needs to uh we need to map
(22:36) out uh a progression for them because
(22:39) you know it’s kind of logical that you
(22:41) go you know you’re an assistant pro you
(22:43) work your way up you kind of get you
(22:44) earn your stripes you become a director
(22:46) and then then where does it go from
(22:48) there you I haven’t seen too many
(22:50) directors of tennis uh you know kind of
(22:52) take a jump into like a general manager
(22:54) role maybe of a facility of a tennis
(22:56) facility but you know let’s talk about a
(22:58) country club um you know what are what
(23:00) are what is the tennis industry uh doing
(23:02) to give that education uh when you do
(23:05) talk about continued ed and I know
(23:07) there’s they’re doing some things in
(23:09) that space but um I think when you make
(23:11) uh when you show these young college
(23:14) kids uh that tennis coaching is a really
(23:18) great way of life cuz it is tough if you
(23:21) don’t enjoy if you don’t love coaching.
(23:23) It’s tough. It’s long days. Um you’re on
(23:26) the court and then when you get off the
(23:28) court, you’ve got emails and phone calls
(23:29) and text messages and all sorts of other
(23:31) organizational things to do and that’s
(23:33) where you get into this tough seat where
(23:35) like you’re a director of tennis and you
(23:38) love being on the court, but there’s so
(23:39) much off court that that that
(23:41) administrative stuff pulls you off. And
(23:43) so if we can make that pathway a little
(23:45) bit more appealing and also keep pushing
(23:48) the innovation you know now you’ve got
(23:50) social media uh you know the influencers
(23:53) and all all the people that are doing
(23:54) amazing stuff and broadening their
(23:57) reach. You know now you used to only
(23:58) kind of touch your community but now
(24:00) your community is way bigger because you
(24:02) could be giving tennis tips on
(24:03) Instagram, you could have your YouTube
(24:05) channel and you could really have a a
(24:07) tight-knit community. Um, and I and I I
(24:10) think that uh maybe the the older crowd,
(24:14) which I feel like I fall into now anyway
(24:16) as I as I say that because I don’t
(24:18) fully, you know, we don’t always
(24:20) understand what some of the what the
(24:22) changes are in in the technology and
(24:23) what’s available. So, I think that’s got
(24:25) to be spelled out a little bit better to
(24:27) help fill that pipeline with these with
(24:30) these younger coaches.
(24:32) So, I want you both to think if you
(24:34) could wave your magic wand and kind of
(24:37) change anything in the tennis landscape,
(24:39) what would it be?
(24:44) Oh, you bet. You want to take it? You
(24:47) want to take that one?
(24:51) Go ahead. So, if you if you had a magic
(24:52) wand, Bur and you could change uh one
(24:55) thing about the current tennis
(24:56) landscape, what would it be?
(24:59) Uh, I guess for me, I guess the first
(25:03) thing that comes to my mind is as a
(25:06) business, stick to your game plan. I I
(25:10) see a lot of clubs, you know, they
(25:11) change just quick or something, hey, I’m
(25:13) going to try this, I can try this. Um, I
(25:17) think stick into your business plan.
(25:19) Stick into your passion as a tennis club
(25:22) and and ride it instead of let me I’m
(25:26) not into the fast money making aspect of
(25:28) my mind. I I’m more into the long long
(25:31) term. I’m here I look at the club, you
(25:33) know, I do I plan to sell it? Maybe not.
(25:35) Maybe my kids want to take it over one
(25:38) day, right? And uh that’s the only thing
(25:40) I can think of is uh I think we need to
(25:42) stick to our guts and say hey tennis but
(25:45) then like Agassi or those guys you know
(25:47) they’re going to pick a ball doing this.
(25:49) Okay. But that’s I think in general I
(25:52) think USDA is trying really hard to help
(25:55) us even clubs to whether it’s improving
(25:58) facilities or uh giving incentives to
(26:02) the coaches. So I can see that growing
(26:05) even they’re going to do much better.
(26:07) That’s awesome. What about you, G? I
(26:09) think with my magic wand, um I would I I
(26:13) would I would uh I would want to create
(26:15) um more more uh of that that culture of
(26:20) of working together. You know, I I think
(26:22) it’s a it’s an individual sport that
(26:24) maybe turns into individual kind of
(26:27) behaviors. you see um you know you you
(26:30) see uh you know you go to different
(26:33) neighborhoods and maybe that coach
(26:34) doesn’t like that coach and those club
(26:36) members don’t like those club members
(26:38) and you know it it kind of it it seems
(26:40) to be a problem on on all the levels you
(26:42) know you’ve got uh the fights between
(26:45) ITF and uh you know ATP and WT and all
(26:48) you know all of I don’t know all the
(26:50) intricacies of it of it but um you know
(26:52) that even within the coaching world
(26:54) you’ve got two different organizations
(26:55) that are educating people and it’s fine
(26:57) that we have those. I I have no problem
(26:59) with that. But I I feel like um we could
(27:02) grow this game so much more if we, you
(27:05) know, if you just looked at your your
(27:06) little circle, your little community,
(27:08) and you said, “Hey, there’s three
(27:10) neighboring clubs around me. What can we
(27:12) do to grow the game together instead of
(27:14) fight against each other?” Because I
(27:16) think that that takes people out of the
(27:18) game. Um and that’s that’s also a little
(27:20) bit what’s special about the the tennis
(27:21) congress. Not to bring the light back to
(27:23) that, but like you know, you’ve got
(27:24) these amazing coaches. It’s obviously
(27:26) much easier to be um you know
(27:29) uh a prophet and and passionate about
(27:32) the game and and ambassador for it when
(27:34) you’re going to a neutral location and
(27:36) you’re you’re not doing it in your
(27:38) neighborhood. But um I I think we that’s
(27:40) why we start to see a little bit of
(27:42) people sliding into into those different
(27:44) whether it’s coaches or players sliding
(27:46) away from tennis into different things
(27:48) because there’s uh maybe just that, you
(27:51) know, it’s us it’s us against them where
(27:54) we should all be kind of kind of playing
(27:56) together. It’s it’s a community thing. A
(27:58) lot of us don’t walk into the same room
(28:00) um because we all have different
(28:02) interests and different ways of life,
(28:03) but tennis is something we all do
(28:05) together. And so I’ I’d love to to break
(28:07) down some of those walls um with my
(28:09) magic wand. I love that because my next
(28:12) question was going to be really and Bur
(28:14) you probably from a consulting aspect,
(28:16) you know, how do you you know how do you
(28:19) work with the other clubs in the area,
(28:21) not as competition, right? How do you
(28:23) set up businesses to, you know, foster
(28:26) the tennis community together, grow
(28:28) together, uh ideas together? I mean, I
(28:31) know that some of the big certification
(28:33) bodies like RSPA and PTR once a year
(28:35) they’ll get together or their divisional
(28:37) conferences, but like how do how do
(28:40) clubs and facilities learn best
(28:42) practices? Um, and how can we spark that
(28:45) so that we can move clubs and facilities
(28:48) forward and not just be so, you know,
(28:51) together or alone? Hey, great question.
(28:54) Actually, um, Gary kind of answered it a
(28:57) little bit. Um, I wish it was more
(28:59) united. Even here in Charlotte when I’m
(29:03) a private club, so there’s a lot of
(29:06) country clubs. Everybody’s just in their
(29:07) own bubble. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I wish
(29:10) there was a Maybe this is something
(29:12) they’re not aware of it, but I wish
(29:14) there was one
(29:17) joint, whatever you call it, but I wish
(29:20) there was one more united like you said.
(29:23) A day, a day, a lunch, a dinner, a happy
(29:26) hour. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, what
(29:30) when I bring that up, they look at it
(29:32) more like I think some people look at as
(29:34) a competition or it’s more been
(29:36) close-minded than anything. Um I think
(29:39) hey, maybe quot Reserve be the one that
(29:41) you’re reuniting and do some this kind
(29:43) of webinars. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You
(29:46) know, I’ve seen that in the pickle ball
(29:48) space. There are these organizations
(29:50) like mastermind networking events where
(29:52) people come together and then once a
(29:54) month they get on Zoom calls and they’re
(29:56) sharing best practices and ideas. And I
(29:58) really think that there is room for that
(30:00) in the tennis space. Maybe I’ll talk to
(30:02) Tim and see if I can get him to add
(30:03) something to his list of things. You
(30:06) know, USDA USDA is offering We are one
(30:09) of the top 50 premier facilities in the
(30:11) country. Yes, that’s right. Yeah. So
(30:14) they do that, you know, they doing it
(30:16) with us. They trying it right now with
(30:17) 50 of those clubs. We do monthly Zoom
(30:20) meetings. They bring us to Orlando. Yep.
(30:23) Uh actually we’re going back in November
(30:25) again. They So USDA is doing this as a
(30:28) pilot program to try it out, but they do
(30:30) have a program that’s going to come out
(30:32) to all to make this more universal
(30:35) nationwide. I love it. Yeah. But I wish
(30:37) there was in the local level again. I
(30:38) wish there was even there’s so many
(30:41) coaches in Charlotte, but everybody’s in
(30:43) their own. Yes. I wish an organization
(30:45) just for the locals, hey, how do we make
(30:46) our industry better? Right. Yes. And I
(30:49) do think that, you know, it’s they’re so
(30:52) busy and I I see and I hear that from a
(30:54) lot of the instructors and coaches that
(30:55) we work with at Court Reserve, we’re
(30:57) like, why wouldn’t you come to our user
(30:59) conference or why don’t you go to the,
(31:01) you know, world conference or this? And
(31:02) they just they can’t take the time off
(31:04) the court. They can’t get away from
(31:06) their city. It’s an expense. their clubs
(31:08) not paying for the expense of them going
(31:11) to something like that. So maybe
(31:13) something in a networking zoom kind of
(31:14) way could be beneficial. Uh agree around
(31:18) the country. So all right. So my last
(31:21) question uh what do you what do you want
(31:23) folks to know about the future of
(31:26) tennis? Um especially when it comes to
(31:28) maybe you know the club aspect or maybe
(31:31) the player aspect and and what’s our
(31:33) hope for tennis in the future as we wrap
(31:35) up today?
(31:37) Gary, go ahead.
(31:40) Uh, you’re burning questions, Ash. Um,
(31:43) the, you know, look, I think tennis is
(31:45) is in a good space. Um, you know, when
(31:47) when whether you look into the the
(31:49) professional world and see like changing
(31:51) of the guard with new faces like Alcarez
(31:53) and SA just like pushing the game and
(31:55) and they’re super fun to watch, right?
(31:57) So, you’re seeing that and it and it all
(31:59) just kind of trickles down, you know,
(32:00) now now I’m looking at kids that we work
(32:02) with and they want to play, you know,
(32:04) slide on the clay and hit a little drop
(32:06) shot like like Alcarez and uh, you know,
(32:08) cover the different angles and and then
(32:10) you start to see it in adult play too.
(32:12) Hey, well, I want to learn a drop shot
(32:14) or or something like that. Um, and so
(32:17) I’m I’m excited about uh the way tennis
(32:20) tennis is moving forward. Um, I feel
(32:22) like there’s a there’s a new wave of
(32:24) players that are um enjoying all the
(32:28) variety that that tennis offers. You
(32:30) know, it’s it’s not tennis is not this
(32:33) exclusive uh sport so much anymore. It’s
(32:36) not exclusive to like, hey, you’ve got
(32:38) to be really good or or you don’t play
(32:39) at all. you know, you’ve got like um
(32:41) people doing amazing work with like
(32:43) cardio tennis where it’s like, hey, I
(32:45) don’t have the best serve, but I love
(32:47) getting a good workout and I love being
(32:49) out there with my friends of all sorts
(32:50) of different levels. And so that’s such
(32:52) an innovative way to uh teach where, you
(32:55) know, you’re as a coach, I I always say
(32:58) you’re you’re you’re a community
(33:00) builder. You’re the driver of the bus
(33:02) that everybody gets on to to go play
(33:04) tennis and they’re all from different
(33:05) walks of life. So finding those ways for
(33:08) uh you know different people to come
(33:10) together together and play tennis has
(33:12) been awesome. You’re seeing it with with
(33:14) different racket sports and I think
(33:16) those other racket sports compliment
(33:18) tennis because they might be easier to
(33:20) learn right out the gate. Um whether you
(33:22) talk padal pickle ball and you know you
(33:24) start to see people come come to tennis
(33:26) because of that. Yeah, you you’re seeing
(33:27) some people walk away from tennis and go
(33:29) to those different sports but I think
(33:31) the future of tennis is great and I
(33:33) think the future of racket sports is
(33:34) great. uh you know furthermore you
(33:37) you’re seeing great um America you you
(33:39) know Americans and you know we’re based
(33:41) in America so like you’re seeing amazing
(33:44) uh there’s so many girls in the top 100
(33:47) uh there’s so many uh guys in the top
(33:49) 100 and and making great moves and so I
(33:52) think that um as you see uh the game
(33:56) evolve you’re seeing a little it’s a
(33:57) little bit of a louder crowd and not
(33:59) such a quiet crowd and I think that’s
(34:01) exactly what what tennis needs right
(34:03) they they needed that shakeup and So,
(34:05) I’m excited for how that affects club
(34:07) world, tennis world in general. So,
(34:10) that’s awesome. Uh, okay, great. So, I
(34:13) guess on my end, I I feel even much much
(34:17) optimistic. This game is for life. Um,
(34:20) again, you can see at the college level,
(34:22) you know, now most schools actually
(34:24) they’re going to they’re changing the
(34:25) NCA is changing the way they give
(34:26) scholarships. They’re going to stop
(34:28) paying the players. Uh I think they’re
(34:31) gonna have 10 players per team at
(34:33) division one and they I think everybody
(34:34) might get scholarships things like that.
(34:37) It’s a it’s making all this juniors even
(34:39) more excited. Uh and again I the
(34:43) professional level look at it the nadals
(34:45) the federates when they’re out now
(34:46) there’s a new generation coming behind
(34:48) them and that’s going to continue
(34:50) whether it’s WTA ATP or even at the
(34:54) culture level you know Wake Forest just
(34:55) won the NCAA and
(34:58) um so really I think again we I feel
(35:02) optimistic that we’re gonna there’s a
(35:04) data by the way that USDA put out that
(35:07) tennis grew I don’t know 15% last here.
(35:11) That’s that out there. The number is
(35:13) climbing every year that new players
(35:16) joining or those who used to play high
(35:18) school 25 years ago, now they want to
(35:19) play tennis, right? As a club, our
(35:23) biggest membership grows has been the
(35:26) emptiness nesters. When the kids are out
(35:28) of the house, they go to college, all of
(35:30) a sudden mom and dad, they get bored.
(35:32) Hey, let’s let’s stop playing tennis.
(35:34) Wow, that’s amazing. I see that for
(35:36) real. We we sell a lot of couples
(35:38) membership now because they want to just
(35:40) get out and we and we do Friday night
(35:42) socials based on mix doubles. Oh, Gary,
(35:46) let’s go. We’ll go on the show. Sign me
(35:48) up. Sign me up. Yeah. So, I can see
(35:51) that. You know, I I think everybody can
(35:52) see that. Or uh and again, like I said
(35:55) earlier, we need just to stay in our own
(35:56) lane of tennis and say, “Hey, let’s grow
(35:59) it.” So, Right. Yeah. Well, I want to
(36:01) thank you guys for joining us today.
(36:03) We’re going to put this up on the court
(36:04) reserve YouTube channel with the links
(36:06) to uh to reach out to both of you guys
(36:08) and just appreciate your time and
(36:10) pushing our favorite sport forward. So,
(36:12) thank you guys. Thanks for having us,
(36:15) Ash. So fun. Okay, bye. Thank you.